# Michael Schiavo: Hero **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 7, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933 "2005-08-07T00:32:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/61 "2005-08-08T16:08:29Z")
> [@Updike](#): > > What is honorable or moral about bagging your shack-up honey and having kid(s) while your wife is still alive? You must be kidding. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/62 "2005-08-08T16:08:32Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The facts are the “evidence” was hearsay. the courts are free to decide what they want, but the might of the courts doesn’t make them right. Many a person has been wrongly charged by courts. So you would not be personally satisfied with anything short of a written indication of intention? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/63 "2005-08-08T17:51:25Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > \*\*Magiver, Updike[b/], out of curiousity, what’s your take on the behaviour of the Schindlers, Terry Schiavo’s parents, through this mess? > > CJ The Schindlers wanted to save their child. Even if it was misguided I can’t fault them for that. If you read about Mr. Shiavo’s behavior toward other people you’ll understand why I don’t want to give him a medal. I personally think there’s reason to suspect he was responsible for some of the damage to his wife. I don’t know if he physically assaulted her directly but he certainly did nothing to help her cause. This resulted in a hospital stay where she incurred further brain damage. If you want to give him a medal and throw him a parade that’s fine. I won’t be in the sidelines cheering for him. He treats people poorly and that makes him an ass in my book. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/64 "2005-08-08T18:24:52Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Secular bias? You mean you prefer a news organization that gives more coverage to unfalsifiable spiritual influences? I prefer a news station that tells the whole story, without bias and spin. I am tired of Bush, war, government bashing with no realistic alternatives. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/65 "2005-08-08T18:30:07Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > She left the marriage first, even if against her will. He had every right to move on with his life. This has got to be the most inane statement I have ever seen posted on the board. “Until **death** do we part”, “in sickness and in health,” etc, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/66 "2005-08-08T18:30:11Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you want to give him a medal and throw him a parade that’s fine. I won’t be in the sidelines cheering for him. He [Michael Schiavo] treats people poorly and that makes him an ass in my book. And the Schindlers _don’t_?!!! :eek: From what I’ve read in the mainstream media and heard on NPR, it’s not unreasonable to assume that Terri Schiavo was bulimic before she met her husband. An interview I heard with childhood friends said she struggled with her weight throughout her adolescence. Nevertheless, I haven’t heard Mr. Schiavo making anywhere near the sort of accusations against her parents they and their supporters have made against him. Actually, I’ve heard very little from him. I’m also wondering where the allegation that he euthanized her pets came from. This is a new one to me. Can anyone provide an on-line cite which isn’t from a website run by supporters of the Schindlers? Anything mainstream media except Fox and the _Pittsburgh Tribune-Review_ will do. CJ ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/67 "2005-08-08T18:35:26Z")
> [@Gangster Octopus](#): > > So you would not be personally satisfied with anything short of a written indication of intention? I think a filed, living will would make a difference, yes, however it still doesn’t answer the question of how she came to be in that dilemma in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/68 "2005-08-08T18:38:24Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If you read about Mr. Shiavo’s behavior toward other people you’ll understand why I don’t want to give him a medal. I personally think there’s reason to suspect he was responsible for some of the damage to his wife. I don’t know if he physically assaulted her directly but he certainly did nothing to help her cause. This resulted in a hospital stay where she incurred further brain damage. If you are referring to testimony from nurses Carla Sauer Iyer and Heidi Law, they were thoroughly discredited, and [Judge Greer dismissed their charges of abuse thusly](http://mediamatters.org/items/200503230001): > [@](#): > > Greer dismissed Iyer’s charges, noting that they – along with a similar affidavit given by Heidi Law, another nurse who formerly took care of Terri Schiavo – were “incredible to say the least” and that “[n]either in the testimony nor in the medical records is there support for these affidavits as they purport to detail activities and responses of Terri Schiavo.” From Greer’s decision: > > The remaining affidavits deal exclusively with events which allegedly occurred in the 1995-1997 time frame. The court feels constrained to discuss them. They are incredible to say the least. Ms. Iyer details what amounts to a 15-month cover-up which would include the staff of Palm Garden of Lago Convalescent Center, the Guardian of the Person, the Guardian ad Litem, the medical professionals, the police and, believe it or not, Mr. and Mrs. Schindler. Her affidavit clearly states that she would “call them (Mr. and Mrs. Schindler) anyway because I thought they should know about their daughter.” The affidavit of Ms. Law speaks of Terri responding on a constant basis. Neither in the testimony nor in the medical records is there support for these affidavits as they purport to detail activities and responses of Terri Schiavo. It is impossible to believe that Mr. and Mrs. Schindler would not have subpoenaed Ms. Iyer for the January 2000 evidentiary hearing had she contacted them as her affidavit alleges. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/69 "2005-08-08T18:40:37Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > I prefer a news station that tells the whole story, without bias and spin. I am tired of Bush, war, government bashing with no realistic alternatives. OK, but what does that have to do with secular versus non-secular? You specifically made charges of “secular bias”, and I would like to know what that is, in reference to reporting the news. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/70 "2005-08-08T18:44:58Z")
> [@Scott Plaid](#): > > No, I think lekatt is upset at the act that NPR actualy reports facts about the consequences of the current regime, rather than spin. Lekatt is not upset about anything. I listen to NPR when I am in the car, can’t say that I have heard any consequences being batted about. But I wouldn’t have believed them if I had, no one knows the future of anything. When I was young and read Malthuses, I really worried about over population, it never happened. I learned not to put much in what doomsayers preach whether they are young or old, ignorant or intellectual. ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/71 "2005-08-08T18:54:49Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > OK, but what does that have to do with secular versus non-secular? You specifically made charges of “secular bias”, and I would like to know what that is, in reference to reporting the news. The secular stations bash the religious for their positions. It is not news to take positions. I may even agree with them, but no bashing please. I have noticed the Fox people to be a great deal more compassionate in telling the really bad news. I have seen them choke up when telling of the deaths of children. I like that, shows they are really human, not automatons. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/72 "2005-08-08T19:01:08Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#): > > Just because he fell in love with someone else doesn’t mean he did wrong by his wife. My wife wouldn’t buy this line, would yours? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/73 "2005-08-08T19:02:21Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > The secular stations bash the religious for their positions. It is not news to take positions. I may even agree with them, but no bashing please. On regular newscasts, or programs like the _Daily Show_? You are aware that that is satire, right? Or do you object to commentary that expresses an individual’s opinion? Please show us where CNN or NBC or CBS bashes people of faith in their news reporting. If anything, they are extremely sensitive with regards to religious tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/74 "2005-08-08T19:06:24Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > My wife wouldn’t buy this line, would yours? :dubious: My wife would expect me to do exactly what Michael Schiavo did…to find new companionship while still carrying out her wishes. I would expect the same thing of her and have told her so. Everything that was Terri (as opposed to a breathing corpse) was dead and gone. There was no infidelity. ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/75 "2005-08-08T19:43:29Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > My wife wouldn’t buy this line, would yours? :dubious: My wife would expect nothing less of me and would be saddened by any actions that did not defend her wishes for her dignity and my happiness. My instructions to her are the same. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/76 "2005-08-08T19:59:56Z")
> [@Nic2004](#): > > My instructions to her are the same. Your instructions say to go out and shack up and have children, while still married? Mine don’t. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/77 "2005-08-08T20:11:58Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > Your instructions say to go out and shack up and have children, while still married? > Mine don’t. Because your wife wants you to…what, suffer? The only way to prove that you do love her is to spend 15 years after her near-fatal heart attack, 15 years in which she’s in a persistent vegetative state and has no hope of real recovery, lonely and suffering and without anyone to love you back? That’s what your wife wants for you? Wow. Why’s she hate you so much, man? ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/78 "2005-08-08T20:40:30Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > Your instructions say to go out and shack up and have children, while still married? > Mine don’t. If I was in a PVS, then I would want my wife to move on with her life. I’d be effectively dead, and I wouldn’t want her to be lonely. She feels the same way- we’ve talked about it. Maybe you should talk to your wife about it? ---
**Author:** ![Nic2004](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@Nic2004](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nic2004)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2005, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/79 "2005-08-08T21:14:33Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > Your instructions say to go out and shack up and have children, while still married? > Mine don’t. My instructions are to go on with your life, be happy, make a home and a life for our son. Do not spend your life next to the bed of a PVS. I’m won’t be there. Neither should you. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933/80 "2005-08-09T00:14:03Z")
> [@kniz](#): > > Your instructions say to go out and shack up and have children, while still married? > Mine don’t. Out of curiousity, **kniz** , are you or your wife allowed to fall in love and remarry after the other one dies? That _is_ what happened in this case. Everything except the most automatic parts of Terry Schiavo’s brain quit functioning 15 years ago. Any hope of recovery vanished well over a decade ago. I believe strongly in the sanctity of marriage, to the point where, as a rule, I’m against divorce. I consider adultery to be always inexcusable. I also don’t think I would have done what Michael Schiavo did in his case, but, frankly, I can’t imagine what things were like for him. I’ll ask you one thing, though. If you’re prepared to castigate Michael Schiavo for “shacking up” with another woman, **why aren’t you castigating the Schindlers for encouraging him to do so**? They may not have encouraged him to shack up with someone, but they did encourage him to date and move on with his life. Also, how do you justify the vicious, malicious lies they’ve spread about him? I do know that if I were in Terry Schiavo’s place, I’d be happy my husband was moving on with his life and enjoying it rather than wallowing in grief over my long-departed soul. I’d also be furious with my parents for trying to destroy the reputation of the man I loved and refusing to let go of me. Medical evidence suggests Terry Schiavo collapsed because of her need to control her eating. A lovely, vibrant woman (I’ve seen photos – she was both) who cared about her apperance was reduced to a husk who was merely a parody of life because her parents insisted on controlling her eating. I’ve read and listened to testimony not only from the Schindlers and Michael Schiavo, but also from her friends, including some who knew her from when she was a little girl. What was done to her was a travesty and a tragedy. I’m glad she’s, presumably, at peace. I just wish the people who’ve believed the cruel lies her parents spread would allow her husband some. CJ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-schiavo-hero/315933.md?page=5)