# Michael Vick = idiot! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198 "2007-07-17T23:50:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/1 "2007-07-17T23:50:58Z")
[Link.](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/07/17/sportsline/main3067633.shtml) Innocent until proven guilty and all, but even if you are a cold hearted bastard who can brutally kill an animal put on Earth to be your friend, do you not know its illegal, or is your bloodlust so thick that you don’t mind risking a 10 million dollar contract to run a dog fighting ring? Is this business so lucrative that you don’t mind risking your football career? Either really stupid, really arrogant, or both. Or something else. I say if guilty, three years jail minumum and kicked out of football, worst case scenario, best case sceanrio, life in jail. I’ll hold short on calling for anything more permanent. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2007, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/2 "2007-07-17T23:56:18Z")
[Really?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtVnqZCndo) ---
**Author:** ![Spit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Spit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spit)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/3 "2007-07-18T00:02:21Z")
Whoa, hoss. I’m pretty sure it turned out he owned the property, but other family lived there. In fact the article says: > [@](#): > > Vick initially said he had no idea the property might have been used in a criminal enterprise and blamed family members for taking advantage of his generosity I could see some of my family taking advantage of a situation like that. So put away your pitchfork, and let’s let justice take it’s course. 🙂 BTW, I am not a Vick fan. Fucker has screwed up too many of my fantasy football teams. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/4 "2007-07-18T00:02:42Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] [Really?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtVnqZCndo) [/QUOTE] Funny! ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/5 "2007-07-18T00:02:56Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] [Really?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjtVnqZCndo) [/QUOTE] 😃 Thanks for that. I gave up on SNL years ago, maybe I should give it another chance. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/6 "2007-07-18T00:11:29Z")
So some cousins of his are renting/living in a house of his and judging by the articles I’ve read, it was a pretty darn big operation. So for me, best case scenario is that he’s an idiot. He could have had one phone conversation where he said, “what are you idiots doing, I’m a high profile athlete and this isn’t going to look good.”? I’m going to hold off on any judgment on him until after we have a finding, but after listening to a sports talk show today, Mr. Vick is in really serious trouble because the way they have charged him (or something) this whole thing isn’t a tough thing to prove. I’m not a lawyer so my lingo isn’t really up to snuff. My wager is that the absolute worst case scenario for him is that he gets a year in jail and MAYBE loses another year to a suspension but I don’t think the commish has the stones to suspend someone as high profile as he is, but I could be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/7 "2007-07-18T00:17:07Z")
There’s a lot more to the indictment than “his family was using his house.” The indictment alleges that Vick was personally involved in the dogfights. From [ESPN’s article](http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2940065) on the indictment: > [@ESPN](#): > > The indictment alleges that Vick and his co-defendants began sponsoring dogfighting in early 2001, the former Virginia Tech star’s rookie year with the Falcons. > > [snip] > > The indictment also claims that in the summer of 2002, at various times, Peace, Phillips, Taylor and Vick performed “testing” sessions at the property in Smithfield. After the testing, the indictment says, dogs that performed poorly were put to death by Peace, Phillips or Taylor. In April 2007, the indictment says, an additional “testing” session was performed by Peace, Phillips and Vick. Afterward, it claims eight dogs were hanged, drowned and/or slammed to the ground and killed. That’s a far cry from having unscrupulous family members taking advantage of him. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/8 "2007-07-18T00:28:59Z")
“Family members who live in the house were doing it without my knowledge” is the type of excuse you hear from a crack whore on Cops (no officer, I swear I didn’t know the living room of the 1000 square foot house I live in was being used as a meth lab, honest)- give him credit at least for being smart enough to lie about it(allegedly). Surely there are more civilized countries than the US where the penalties for this are much worse? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/9 "2007-07-18T01:09:36Z")
After reading the more graphic article, FUCK this bastard. If he’s guilty. Its gotta be great for parents of fans to know that while their kid was cheering Vick on one Sunday last year, who knows, maybe the night the before he was beating a dog to death by slamming his head on the concrete, all because he wasn’t good at killing other dogs. But hey, if jailed or not, he’ll still lose most of his football money and all his endorsement money, and since his brother is another troublemaking NFL washout, maybe he’ll end up like Maurice Clarett, with any luck. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/10 "2007-07-18T01:33:40Z")
Not that I want to defend people who may have been involved in some pretty despicable acts… Let’s not forget another indictment against some other athletes that turned out to be nothing but a pack of lies. I’m tempted now, just like I was during the Duke Lacrosse case, to say that “The DA wouldn’t indict the guy unless there was _evidence_ linking him to the crime.” However, I know that’s not true, and we’re not going to actually know whether or not Vick was personally involved for a while. If he was not personally involved, and did not know what abuses were going on, he gets somewhat of a pass from me. Still an idiot, associating with miserable scumbags, but not a criminal. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/11 "2007-07-18T02:21:11Z")
[QUOTE=Cheesesteak] Not that I want to defend people who may have been involved in some pretty despicable acts… Let’s not forget another indictment against some other athletes that turned out to be nothing but a pack of lies. [/quote] In that case, when the indictments came down it was already public knowledge that there was no DNA evidence against any of the defendents. To compare this situation, it would have to have already come out that the house was not, in fact, bought by Michael Vick, the people who lived there were not related to him by either blood or even socially, and there wasn’t even any dogfighting going on at the property. Also in the Duke case it was pretty clearly apparent (before the indictments came down) that the original complaint was motivated by a personal grudge the accuser had over racial slurs. Who is the complainant in the dogfighting? Do they have a personal grudge? Is it possible that no crime at all took place? Vick’s case is completely different, and it ain’t lookin’ too good for Ron Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/12 "2007-07-18T02:44:20Z")
The idea that Vick had no idea what was going on at his own house is ludicrous. He knew EXACTLY what they were doing. ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/13 "2007-07-18T02:46:15Z")
As it relates to Vick, the charges are that he was personally involved in the dogfighting ring. Not just that he owned the house and the people living there were dogfighting. Not even that he knew about the dogfighting and did nothing to prevent it. Post Duke, I would find it entirely plausible that Vick did not personally get involved in the activity, and that a DA could add Vick to the indictment without having evidence in hand that he was directly involved. I don’t have much doubt that there was dogfighting going on, but I will reserve judgment on Vick himself until more details come out. Note also that recent reports seemed to suggest that Vick was not involved and was not going to be indicted. Those could have been false reports, or they could have reflected the state of the case, and the DA decided to expand it to include the Big Fish, just in case more evidence became available. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/14 "2007-07-18T03:14:28Z")
The NFL 86’d Tank Johnson for a lesser pair of charges, one of which related to mistreatment of dogs. I hope the commish has the cajones to stuff Vick in the bunk below Johnson’s on the former football player express. Seriously, I’m not sure what motivates these shithead athletes to think thay dogfighting is somehow simply OK. It’s the grown up equivalent of pulling wings off of flies. It’s sick, it’s disturbing and it’s needless. This fucker had the world basically laid at his feet, and rather than make it a better place, he chooses to be just another shithead. Nope, fuck him and everyone like him. With any luck, Vick and his ilk will end up broke, in jail, or left in a ditch to rot. Worthless bastards. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/15 "2007-07-18T03:23:03Z")
I always thought that red necks had the corner on dog fights. (Aside: Can a black man be a red neck or, by definition, are the two mutually exclusive?) Vick has the unfortunate luck to be arrested after the entire Bengals team has been arrested and put a big black eye on the NFL. Now TPTB have decided to crack down on felons and Vick is going to be SOL. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/16 "2007-07-18T06:05:37Z")
[QUOTE=PunditLisa] Vick has the unfortunate luck to be arrested after the entire Bengals team has been arrested and put a big black eye on the NFL. Now TPTB have decided to crack down on felons and Vick is going to be SOL. [/QUOTE] Hey! Hey! They’ve only arrested 10 of the Bengles in 14th months. It’s not like the whole team. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/17 "2007-07-18T06:22:47Z")
An FBI agent undercover was on today saying Vick bet thousands on the matches. He also said that he killed 8 dogs that were underperforming. Wonder if they are on steroids. The informant claimed he is very deep and well known as a player the dog biz. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/18 "2007-07-18T06:39:36Z")
[The Smoking Gun](http://web1.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0717072vick1.html) has the full indictment up. It describes more than a few fights, including approximate dates, the names of the dogs (when known), the purse, the winning dog, and what happened to the losing dog. Vick is mentioned several times as personally paying or collecting money, “testing” the dogs as described above, and traveling and sponsoring the fights. The indictment mentions four cooperating witnesses as well. It doesn’t specifically describe Vick killing any of the dogs, except as a witness, but there are accounts of the other three indicted men (Peace, Phillips, and Taylor) “executing” dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/19 "2007-07-18T06:57:58Z")
It appears that there are multiple witnesses saying that Vick was heavily personally involved in the operation and placing him on the scene at fights. Yes, innocent until proven guilty and all that, but the prosecution has taken its time with this. They did not just indict or accuse Vick right out of the gate. they been collecting evidence and testimony for months. I think his career is in serious jeopardy. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198/20 "2007-07-18T07:36:55Z")
I’m going to agree with the other posters who’ve said that this looks to be a credible case against Vick. If the DA maintains the high standard that they’ve implied so far, it does look bad for Vick - as it should. Having said that, I want to make it clear that I find it quite credible that someone who’s job involves a lot of predictable travel _could_ find himself being victimized by family members who took advantage of his absences without his knowledge. It’s not an absurd defense, on the face of it. In this case it doesn’t seem that it’s likely to hold water - but that’s a specific case. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michael-vick-idiot/412198.md?page=2)