# MichaelNewdow.com, I pit ya **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403 "2004-06-15T00:50:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/1 "2004-06-15T00:50:48Z")
I would say “I pit thee,” but I’m from Texas. Actually, maybe it should be “I pit yall.” Anyway… And now, I’m happy to present "We’re Not All Like That"™ post number eleventy-billion. I stumbled across this mind-numbing web page while reading [Salon.com](http://Salon.com)’s [interview](http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2004/06/14/newdow/index.html) with Michael Newdow today. If you’re unfamiliar, he’s the dude suing the government to get “Under God” out of the Pledge of Allegience. This site has a collection of emails that “Christians” wrote to him. I’m beside myself. I’ll just let the email I wrote to the site (they call themselves “Jesus Christ Saves Ministries”) speak for itself. … I cannot believe what I’m reading on your “emails to Michael Newdow” web page. I am disgusted as a Christian, an American, and a human being. Do you know how many non-Christians are reading your web page? Thanks to the mindless vitriol you’re showcasing, anyone on the internet who wants to make Christians look bad will be linking to you to show how small-minded and ridiculous we all are. People who don’t know any better are going to assume that this is what Christianity is about. I hope you know better. I hope you know that Christ is about love, not hate. Christ is about inclusion, not exclusion. Christ is about peace, not threats of violence. Your misrepresentation of real Christian faith is truly appalling. I’d like to address a few comments that your readers made on the emails page. A user named “Bevin” says he’s offended that atheists impose their lack of values on him. Am I the only one who sees that we might just be imposing our values on Mr. Newdow? I thank God that the founders of our great nation had the foresight to set things up so people of all faiths can have a spot at the table. That didn’t happen by accident. As Christians we’re in the majority at the moment, but what if we weren’t? What if the United States of America were an atheist nation? I’d be glad knowing that the government couldn’t force my children to denounce God every morning. Other writers like “Disgusted in Maryland” wonder why Mr. Newdow doesn’t find something better to worry about. I’m wondering why your readers don’t do the same thing. Why are you so concerned about this issue? We’re not talking about an assault on Christianity in general; we’re talking about reverting the Pledge of Allegiance back to its original state. Do your readers know that the author of the pledge never intended the words “under God” to be included? The words were added by Congress in the 1950s. Getting back to finding something better to worry about, are the presence of the words “under God” in the pledge really that important? Are your children getting a significant amount of their spiritual fulfillment by mindlessly droning the pledge every morning? If so, have you ever considered doing Bible studies at home, praying together, and going to church? By far the most disturbing comments came from the person calling himself “Angry American.” I can’t believe I’m reading threats of physical violence from a “Christian” against another human being. He should be ashamed of himself, and you should be ashamed of yourselves for giving him a tacit endorsement by publishing his email. Being a Christian means many things to many people. To me it means we can make a difference and make the world a better place. It means that we have a love within us that’s stronger than any human emotion we might feel otherwise. It means that we want to be more like Jesus Christ. My savior does not threaten. He doesn’t intimidate people who don’t agree with him. He does not hate. He is a model of love and forgiveness, and I plan on spending the rest of my time on this planet trying to be more like Him. So what exactly are you trying to do? Sincerely, Chris Stevens [website removed per request-Czarcasm] ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/2 "2004-06-15T00:52:36Z")
Whoops… must… preview… I didn’t mean to include my URL there; I just copied and pasted from my email. I’m not intending to advertise. Mods, please remove that if it’s inappropriate. My apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/3 "2004-06-15T01:35:15Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > Whoops… must… preview… I didn’t mean to include my URL there; I just copied and pasted from my email. I’m not intending to advertise. Mods, please remove that if it’s inappropriate. My apologies. Fixed it. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/4 "2004-06-15T01:36:35Z")
I apologize if I’m stepping on your toes, **Slacker,** but I’d like to clarify (for others, I know you know) that [MichaelNewdow.com](http://MichaelNewdow.com) is not actually affiliated with Michael Newdow. I wrongly assumed that [MichaelNewdow.com](http://MichaelNewdow.com) was Michael Newdow’s website, even though your post didn’t make much sense under that assumption. I was confused, so I figured maybe someone else might be too. See, I thought you were pitting Michael Newdow for putting up some letters he received on his own website. Instead, you’re pitting an anti-Michael Newdow group, whose website happens to be [MichaelNewdow.com](http://MichaelNewdow.com), for making the “Christian side” look like morons. And morons they look like, indeed. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/5 "2004-06-15T01:53:31Z")
Thanks **Czarcasm**. And word, **Jimmy Chitwood** , I could have made that more clear. Speaking of the name of the site, and legal eagles know if they’re allowed to register a person’s name as a domain like that for the purpose of defaming that person? Seems like a suspect thing to do. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/6 "2004-06-15T01:59:09Z")
Ah, Christian love. This is why I’m an atheist. I simply believe that the “hey, now, this kind of christian is really a small minority” crowd are fooling themselves. This attitude, in my experience, is much, much, much more common than folks would have me think. > [@](#): > > Hey Scumbag - > > I saw your arrogant conceited ass on Scarborough Country last night! What a piece of shit you are! Someone needs to end your miserable life! Where are the real Christian soldiers in a time like this when we are being so openly attacked and our heritage threatened? We can no longer tolerate in America perverts like you who are destroying our country! Real Americans need to take up arms (literally) and put diseased filth like you in the ground! I hope and pray for the day when our paths might cross! If you are brave enough, come look me up! I’ll be waiting! Or, better yet, get the hell out of my country!!! > > Angry American > [@](#): > > WE ARE ALL UNDER GOD!!! YOU DAM FOOL!!!YES YOU ARE ABOVE THE DEVIL WHY DO HIS WORK ? NOW LISTEN HERE YOU FUCKING ATHEIST !!! DO NOT TRY!!! TO DICTATE WHAT MY KIDS SAY OR LEARN THAT IS RIGHT. WHAT YOU SAY IS WRONG I HAVE MY RIGHTS TO AND I DO !!! WANT GOD IN THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE!!!SO DO ALL AMERICANS !! YOU!!! WILL LOSE YOU FUCKING FOOL IF YOU DO NOT LIKE WHAT I SAY KISS MY ASS YOU STUPID BASTARD OR COME TO MILLS RIVER N.C. I WELCOME YOU YOU GODDAM PIECE OF SHIT!!! ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/7 "2004-06-15T02:53:08Z")
[Link](http://michaelnewdow.com/EmailstoNewdow.htm) to the page under discussion. Quotes from the page under discussion: > [@](#): > > loser, retart, go fuck yourself…asshole…hey when is egg day loser- > [@](#): > > Hey Mike, > > You are a real gem! You get up on your soapbox with your pumpkin looking receeding hairline head and profess atheisms. Well good for you, you jerk! I happen to be a Nazi. I want to incorporate Hitler’s name into our pldge of allegiance, and also have his face put onto our currency. Why should I be slighted or forgotten.I have rights to you disgusting excuse of a man. You OK with that bumpkin? And I’m sure your precious daughter won’t mind, will she? > > The point I’m making is, Why should 99.9% of the populace roll over to your pathetic, publicity seeking cause? Get a life you deplorable UCLU freak! > > See you in Hell mine comrade! > > E.C.H. > [@](#): > > You and your ilk, are like communist subversives; intent on bringing down the US of A… > > What do you hope to accomplish?. While I agree that the religious right quoting the Bible ad-nauseum and excluding everyone else that think differently are just as nuts (Jesus has very little to do with what is passed of as Christianity today. It’s more about men trying to control other men in the name of God), and give the left the opportunity to attain credibility to the detriment of us all…… > > You Michael Newdow and the people like you on the left will eventually succeed in bringing us down… Guess what… You will be the ones whining the loudest when the very democracy that protected you right to be such subversive idiots has fallen thanks to you, and the next government lines you up and shoots you en masse, as no one really cares for your type, and in other countries you are just eliminated, as the scum you are… > > Be very careful Mr. Newdow what you wish for. You open a Pandoras box. Unfortunately has your voting block of left wing idiots, and your free lunch, socialist/communist, welfare ideals grows; …. The rest of us will also pay the price…. > > Tom Ford, Laguna Niguel, CA > > PS… I welcome healthy discourse, and difference of opinion, and as Voltaire said; your right to speak it…. I just think you Berkeley types are evil and not good for the continuation of our great country…. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/8 "2004-06-15T02:55:08Z")
Whoops, almost missed another great one: > [@](#): > > Hello Michael > > My name is Carlos Robles In God We Trust > For I am the man with God. I am living Proof That there is a God. If > You dare to see God then you must come and visit me. I am accessable > for special events only > All you have to do is look into my eyes and you will see God > > [Phone number deleted, but the dummy actually posted it.– **mg**] > > Sir Oaktree USA > CARLOS ROBLES ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/9 "2004-06-15T03:08:17Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > I’d like to address a few comments that your readers made on the emails page. A user named “Bevin” says he’s offended that atheists impose their lack of values on him. Am I the only one who sees that we might just be imposing our values on Mr. Newdow? I thank God that the founders of our great nation had the foresight to set things up so people of all faiths can have a spot at the table. That didn’t happen by accident. As Christians we’re in the majority at the moment, but what if we weren’t? What if the United States of America were an atheist nation? I’d be glad knowing that the government couldn’t force my children to denounce God every morning. Fact: in every case there is a winner and there is a loser. Fact: The winner gets his will imposed on the loser. So “Bevin” has a point. Someone is always inconvenienced by someone else. That’s the way it is, that’s the way it always will be. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/10 "2004-06-15T03:39:01Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Fact: in every case there is a winner and there is a loser. Not in this case. Due to the chickenshit “standing” ruling, it’s as if the whole thing never happened, no winners, no losers. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/11 "2004-06-15T03:51:09Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > Fact: in every case there is a winner and there is a loser. > Fact: The winner gets his will imposed on the loser. > > So “Bevin” has a point. Someone is always inconvenienced by someone else. That’s the way it is, that’s the way it always will be. Are you sure you understand the ruling. SCOTUS did not rule on the constitutionality of “under god,” only that Newdow had no standing to bring the complaint. The constitutional question is still wide open. Nothing was decided. Furthermore, “Bevin” is wrong anyway because Newdow is not attemptiong to “impose atheism” on anyone, he’ s only seeking _not_ to have theism pressed on his daughter by the state. **Minty** is right. It was a chickenshit ruling. I suspect that they know that Newdow is right on the law but they didn’t have the courage to say so. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/12 "2004-06-15T03:59:46Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Are you sure you understand the ruling. SCOTUS did not rule on the constitutionality of “under god,” only that Newdow had no standing to bring the complaint. The constitutional question is still wide open. Nothing was decided. I understand that. Sooner or later it will be decided, though, and this discussion will still be relevant then. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, “Bevin” is wrong anyway because Newdow is not attemptiong to “impose atheism” on anyone, he’ s only seeking _not_ to have theism pressed on his daughter by the state. And perhaps I prefer it in there and it is an imposition on me to have it removed. Once again, someone is always inconvenienced/offended/whatever. > [@](#): > > **Minty** is right. It was a chickenshit ruling. I suspect that they know that Newdow is right on the law but they didn’t have the courage to say so. I agree it was a chickenshit ruling, and I suspect that it will be eliminated. That doesn’t mean that I have to be happy about it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/13 "2004-06-15T05:13:02Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > I agree it was a chickenshit ruling, and I suspect that it will be eliminated. That doesn’t mean that I have to be happy about it. Why specifically would you be unhappy about it? I’m sure you’re aware that the original pledge didn’t have the phrase in it, that it was added in the 1950s, and that if we were designing a pledge from scratch today it certainly would not make the cut. Why is it necessary to invoke religion in what is a 100% secular issue? ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/14 "2004-06-15T05:13:44Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And perhaps I prefer it in there and it is an imposition on me to have it removed. Once again, someone is always inconvenienced/offended/whatever. If you park on my front lawn without permission, do you consider it an imposition when I ask you to get off? ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/15 "2004-06-15T05:26:12Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > Ah, Christian love. Mmm… hot sweaty christian love. 🆒 Sorry. Seriously, some of the nicest (and sexiest, but that’s irrelevent) people I know are Christians, because they take the ‘love’ thing seriously. And some of the most maleavolent fucking evil people are too, because they miss it, and concentrate on hating. Here’s to the first sort. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/16 "2004-06-15T06:40:39Z")
This one confused me no end: “people like you are the only hope for the human animal” Was it talking about Newdow? How’d they let that one slip in? It was the _only_ positive they printed… ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/17 "2004-06-15T06:45:45Z")
Amusingly, they have all the well-debunked made up foundingg father quotes by professional liar David Barton. Boy, that’s a big surprise! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/18 "2004-06-15T06:49:06Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And perhaps I prefer it in there and it is an imposition on me to have it removed. Once again, someone is always inconvenienced/offended/whatever. Sorry, but a mere wish for the universe to be different isn’t an imposition. It would be an imposition if your own government asked you to affirm that Baal rules over your nation, and asked your schoolchildren to recite it. It isn’t an imposition for the government NOT to do something. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/19 "2004-06-15T07:37:21Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And perhaps I prefer it in there and it is an imposition on me to have it removed. Once again, someone is always inconvenienced/offended/whatever. Yeah, it’s a terrible imposition on a religious person to NOT have an invocation to supernatural forces in the Pledge of Alleigance. Because, as we all know, it’s really quite impossible to be a loyal American if one doesn’t profess belief in a monotheistic religious system, so it’s easy to see why this would be the case. There’s no need to confuse the issue by needlessly dwelling on the so-called “fact” that the author of the original Pledge didn’t seem to think such an invocation was necessary. But, really, this only goes to show that the author of the Pledge wasn’t a fully loyal American. Good thing someone else came along to amend the Pledge before the country was completely destroyed. Yep, this is obviously a case of “six of one, half dozen of the other.” Either way, someone is offended–it is indeed a dilemma with no clear solution. Too bad America doesn’t have any principles or values whatsoever about keeping church and state separate, or not imposing religious beliefs on others, or about protecting minority rights, that one could employ to clarify the issue at hand. If someone is offended either way, then what are you going to do? It’s best just to accede to the beliefs of the religious majority. After all, this has always worked out so well in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/20 "2004-06-15T09:34:50Z")
If I need constant oxygen to survive, then removal of that oxygen (even for the duration of a short speech) would be an imposition that I’d fight against tooth and nail. Presumably some people need constant repetition and public affirmation of mindless irrational dogma for their world view to survive, and so removal of that (even for the duration of a short speech) is an imposition that they fight tooth and nail. Living with insecure people sure is a trial. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403.md?page=2)