# MichaelNewdow.com, I pit ya **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403 "2004-06-15T00:50:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/21 "2004-06-15T10:13:32Z")
> [@Apos](#): > > well-debunked made up foundingg father quotes by professional liar David Barton. I considered removing the extra “g” in “founding” from **Apos** ’ original post, but ultimately decided I did not have standing to bring the complaint. I have never heard these debunked quotes and don’t know who David Barton is, but it sounds like a read good for a few laughs. Does anyone have any links? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/22 "2004-06-15T13:53:48Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And perhaps I prefer it in there and it is an imposition on me to have it removed. Really? It’s an imposition on you not to be able to cram your beliefs down the throats of school children that you don’t even know? Does it take away your rights if you can’t force your beliefs on others? Is it defending your freedoms to force kids to recite a mantra to your particular sky pixie? Methinks you need to reexamine the whole concept of freedom. You’re clearly not up to speed on it. What bothers me most about that website (other than people making death threats for the Lord) is the amount of magical thinking going on. Like we’re going to create some magic bubble of protection if we drone a mantra every morning. How very Harry Potter, sans the intelligence. Stupid motherfuckers. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/23 "2004-06-15T14:06:51Z")
If we take out under God from the pledge, God will die. We can’t have that now! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/24 "2004-06-15T14:10:59Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > If we take out under God from the pledge, God will die. > We can’t have that now! > 😉 Yeah, that’s the kind of magical thinking I’m talking about. The sad thing is that there are actually people who believe that. These assholes actually believe that atheists have the power to kill the Almighty. I guess he wouldn’t be all that almighty if that were so, huh? ---
**Author:** ![Denis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5e9695/32.png) [@Denis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Denis)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/25 "2004-06-15T14:40:36Z")
This is not a theocracy. “Under God” and “In God We Trust” advocates have no business imposing that shit on the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/26 "2004-06-15T15:05:27Z")
> [@Terrifel](#): > > Yeah, it’s a terrible imposition on a religious person to NOT have an invocation to supernatural forces in the Pledge of Alleigance. Just to play devil’s [heh!] advocate here: a religious person would resist pledging his _ultimate_ allegience to his country or anyone else but God. By including the words “under God” he acknowledges the order of his priorities. That said, I don’t see why there has to be an official, legal version of the Pledge at all. Why can’t people just say whatever they want? ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/27 "2004-06-15T15:32:24Z")
What’re you all getting on **Airman Doors** for? Why does he have to be happy that “under God” gets removed from the pledge? ---
**Author:** ![Psycho\_Pirate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Psycho\_Pirate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Psycho_Pirate)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/28 "2004-06-15T15:51:26Z")
I can’t speak for Airman Doors, but my cynical response would be: Because he isn’t participating lock-step in the hive-mind group-think of “Oh, we’re OPPRESSED! You’re shoving your religion down our throats!!! _choke_ We know the schoolkids don’t _have_ to say it, but they’ll feel UNCOMFORTABLE if they don’t. They don’t have the spine to stand up for their convictions, it’s just easier to take away everybody else’s. Establishment clause: good, free exercise clause: bad!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/29 "2004-06-15T16:18:34Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > What’re you all getting on **Airman Doors** for? Why does he have to be happy that “under God” gets removed from the pledge? For me, I’m just trying to understand his thinking. And I certainly didn’t say he should be “happy” about the remove, just wondering why he’d be “unhappy” about it. Some folks seem to take it as an insult to religion, while it’s actually neutral. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/30 "2004-06-15T16:38:44Z")
> [@Slacker](#): > > II cannot believe what I’m reading on your “emails to Michael Newdow” web page. I am disgusted as a Christian, an American, and a human being. Do you know how many non-Christians are reading your web page? Thanks to the mindless vitriol you’re showcasing, anyone on the internet who wants to make Christians look bad will be linking to you to show how small-minded and ridiculous we all are. People who don’t know any better are going to assume that this is what Christianity is about. Is no one else going to take issue with this? Listen, if it exists and is real, then the page has every right to print it. If Christians don’t want to be seen as vitriolic, hateful, occasionally violent bigots, then they should stop being **and tolerating** bigotry and violence in their churches. I want to see more Christians causing schisms in their own churches over things like gay marriage and women in the priesthood. Then we can see they’re ready to do somthing more than shrug their shoulders and say; “aw, whatcha gonna do” when their co-congregationist Alice kicks her 15 year old son out of the house for being gay. That website has no obligation to paint Christians in a good light. They print what they get, and this is what Christians are handing out. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/31 "2004-06-15T16:51:51Z")
> [@Psycho Pirate](#): > > Because he isn’t participating lock-step in the hive-mind group-think of "Oh, we’re OPPRESSED! You’re shoving your religion down our throats!!! Yeah, because everyone that disagrees with you must be of a hive mind. There is no possibility that free-thinkers came to their conclusions of their own making. Now, let’s all celebrate our religious individuality by facing a piece of cloth and chanting in unison. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/32 "2004-06-15T16:55:26Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Listen, if it exists and is real, then the page has every right to print it. If Christians don’t want to be seen as vitriolic, hateful, occasionally violent bigots, then they should stop being **and tolerating** bigotry and violence in their churches. Damn straight. If the OP wants to make his voice heard, then maybe he should send a letter to the web admins before coming here to post. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/33 "2004-06-15T17:16:36Z")
Actually, I was referring more to the idea of calling the _letter-writers_ themselves on their stupidity. I’m sure the OP knows at least one or two people who could have written those letters. Someone is calling [muslims](http://www.muslimrefusenik.com/news/theindependent-04-05-11.html) out on their refusal to confront the atrocities in the muslim world. Maybe if more people called Christians on their atrocities, the West could be a better place. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/34 "2004-06-15T17:18:42Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Actually, I was referring more to the idea of calling the _letter-writers_ themselves on their stupidity. I’m sure the OP knows at least one or two people who could have written those letters. Ah, gotcha ya. Your previous post was a little unclear. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/35 "2004-06-15T17:29:12Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > Is no one else going to take issue with this? > > Listen, if it exists and is real, then the page has every right to print it. If Christians don’t want to be seen as vitriolic, hateful, occasionally violent bigots, then they should stop being **and tolerating** bigotry and violence in their churches. I want to see more Christians causing schisms in their own churches over things like gay marriage and women in the priesthood. Then we can see they’re ready to do somthing more than shrug their shoulders and say; “aw, whatcha gonna do” when their co-congregationist Alice kicks her 15 year old son out of the house for being gay. > > That website has no obligation to paint Christians in a good light. They print what they get, and this is what Christians are handing out. What is it you’re taking issue with exactly? I don’t be and tolerate bigotry in my church. I don’t like seeing it on the web either, which is why I emailed the website in question. I’m curious as to what else you’d have me do. Of course they have the right to print it. And someone else has the right to make a Kung Fu page dedicated to how cool it is to karate chop someone’s head off. Doesn’t mean I have to like it. It pisses me off because they’re spreading ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/36 "2004-06-15T17:43:06Z")
Sorry for the double post - didn’t see this. > [@kung fu lola](#): > > Actually, I was referring more to the idea of calling the _letter-writers_ themselves on their stupidity. I’m sure the OP knows at least one or two people who could have written those letters. I know exactly zero people like that. Thanks for assuming though, I love when people do that. > [@kung fu lola](#): > > Someone is calling [muslims](http://www.muslimrefusenik.com/news/theindependent-04-05-11.html) out on their refusal to confront the atrocities in the muslim world. Maybe if more people called Christians on their atrocities, the West could be a better place. So, you’re welcome then? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/37 "2004-06-15T18:16:50Z")
Well, as tempting at it is to believe these e-mails as a fair sampling of the insanity wrought by organized religion, this is in no way a representative sample of Christian responses to Newdow, but a self-selected (and no doubt cherry picked by the site editors) group of loony tunes who happen to have found Jesus as their fixation instead of fluoridated water or Amway. It isn’t fair to tar all Christians based on this inherently skewed representation, but at the same time I find it a tad ingenuous for the Christian Dopers to say that no way no how have they _ever_ heard any of their co-religionists express any sentiments toward nonbelievers that reeked of anything but the most ethereal divine love. Bitch, please I do wonder if these religious nutbars have ever paused in the midst of poisoning electrons to question if using obscenities and threats in defense of Jesus might pose an inherent contradiction in their personal walks with the Savior. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/38 "2004-06-15T18:23:22Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Methinks you need to reexamine the whole concept of freedom. You’re clearly not up to speed on it. Well, **Airman Doors** also thinks it’s “American” to [prevent Michael Moore from making movies](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261413) about stuff he doesn’t want to hear; seems to me there’s a _lot_ of stuff in the United States Constitution that he needs some remedial education about. ---
**Author:** ![Slacker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@Slacker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slacker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/39 "2004-06-15T18:31:25Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > …I find it a tad ingenuous for the Christian Dopers to say that no way no how have they _ever_ heard any of their co-religionists express any sentiments toward nonbelievers that reeked of anything but the most ethereal divine love. > > Bitch, please lol, I’m not saying I’ve never heard anything other than righteous love, but I honestly don’t know anyone who would spew the nonsense on the webpage in question. Thank God. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403/40 "2004-06-15T19:06:58Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > Well, **Airman Doors** also thinks it’s “American” to [prevent Michael Moore from making movies](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=261413) about stuff he doesn’t want to hear; seems to me there’s a _lot_ of stuff in the United States Constitution that he needs some remedial education about. I’m not going to comment on that, being that I’ve abandoned that thread some time back. And I think I was a bit harsh, as some of the comments linked to by the OP got me in a rather foul and argumentative mood. And hey, I generally like **Airman**. But the comment he made here gave me a true :dubious: moment. I’d really like to see him justify it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michaelnewdow-com-i-pit-ya/250403.md?page=3)