# Michelle Bachman again (maybe there should be a sticky) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774 "2009-04-29T21:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/21 "2009-04-30T00:54:49Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > In other news, Israeli official has asked the epidemic be renamed because Swine Flu is [offensive](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ieHZRubAS3lyjn2GBiCPkXkHrXwwD97QROAG0) to devout Jews. You know, that doesn’t even make sense on its own terms. Shouldn’t Orthodox Jews react to a big scary global pandemic (maybe) named “swine flu” by standing around and saying “See? _See?_” I mean, the association implies that swine are, in fact, unclean and bad and bring down plagues upon those who associate with them, just like the LORD always said. Now, Hindus taking offense at “Mad Cow Disease” would make more sense, although I suppose they could say “Well, that’s what happens when you godsless Westerners _eat_ them.” ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/22 "2009-04-30T01:00:43Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > no one’s objecting to elephantitis. Everybody objects to elephantiasis. (WARNING! [\*\*UNSAFE GRAPHIC LINK!](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2377/1520324747_e468eab773.jpg)\*\* CLICK AT YOUR OWN RISK). ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/23 "2009-04-30T01:11:02Z")
> [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](#): > > I mean, elephants aren’t kosher either, … That’s only because God dropped manna and not elephants in the Sinai. “Incoming!” _splat_ “Y’know, I can’t even tell if that had legs, let alone split hooves. Lunchtime!” ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/24 "2009-04-30T01:39:40Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Bachmann has also declared recently that FDR “turned a recession into a depression” (even though he took office with a 25% unemployment rate) and one of the tools he used to make that happen was “Hoot-Smalley tariffs.” > > Oh yeah. She’s got the dumb. She’s also one of the ones who claims that the Depression ended due to World War II, a myth not only disproven but, to paraphrase Stephen Colbert, relies on the logic that “The Depression didn’t end due to the government pouring hundreds of billions of dollars we didn’t have into privately owned industries, it ended because World War II galvanized our economy by forcing the government to pour hundreds of billions of dollars we didn’t have to privately owned industries to make weapons!” ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/25 "2009-04-30T01:40:30Z")
> [@tumbleddown](#): > > Bachmann has also declared recently that FDR “turned a recession into a depression” (even though he took office with a 25% unemployment rate) and one of the tools he used to make that happen was “Hoot-Smalley tariffs.” > > Oh yeah. She’s got the dumb. Spoonerism aside (and disregarding the fact that Smoot-Hawley was enacted under Hoover), Bachmann’s going along with one of the current attempts by Republican pundits to rewrite history because they hate FDR so much. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/26 "2009-04-30T01:47:56Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > She’s also one of the ones who claims that the Depression ended due to World War II, a myth not only disproven but, to paraphrase Stephen Colbert, relies on the logic that “The Depression didn’t end due to the government pouring hundreds of billions of dollars we didn’t have into privately owned industries, it ended because World War II galvanized our economy by forcing the government to pour hundreds of billions of dollars we didn’t have to privately owned industries to make weapons!” I have actually seen a guy claim the following: 1. World War 2 was massive government spending. 2. World War 2 helped the economy. 3. Therefore, massive government spending cannot help the economy. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/27 "2009-04-30T06:48:25Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > You know, that doesn’t even make sense on its own terms. Shouldn’t Orthodox Jews react to a big scary global pandemic (maybe) named “swine flu” by standing around and saying “See? _See?_” > > I mean, the association implies that swine are, in fact, unclean and bad and bring down plagues upon those who associate with them, just like the LORD always said." This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with politics. Litzman is just trying to flex his political muscle: if he manages to get the name changed, he’ll score points with his constituents; if he doesn’t, he’ll act like he’s owed something. The best way to deal with his type is to ignore them. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/28 "2009-04-30T07:07:09Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with politics. Litzman is just trying to flex his political muscle: if he manages to get the name changed, he’ll score points with his constituents; if he doesn’t, he’ll act like he’s owed something. > > The best way to deal with his type is to ignore them. Sounds like his suggestion has been pretty much [rejected](http://jta.org/news/article/2009/04/29/1004758/swine-flu-name-wont-be-changed-in-israel) by the Israeli government: > [@](#): > > The swine flu will not take any new names in Israel despite the unease of a health official from a fervently religious party. > > \ > > A Foreign Ministry official told the French news agency AFP that [Mexican Ambassador to Israel] Salas “was offended” by the term “Mexican flu.” > > “Israel has no intention of giving the flu any new names,” the official said. “It was nothing more than a slip of the tongue.” ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/29 "2009-04-30T07:22:09Z")
That’s good. One thing you have to understand about the Israeli political system is that the executive branch of the government is essentially a loose coalition of people who hate each other. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/30 "2009-04-30T08:44:05Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That’s good. > > One thing you have to understand about the Israeli political system is that the executive branch of the government is essentially a loose coalition of people who hate each other. Unlike, say, every other government out there ? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/31 "2009-04-30T10:46:09Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I have actually seen a guy claim the following: > > 1. World War 2 was massive government spending. > 2. World War 2 helped the economy. > 3. Therefore, massive government spending cannot help the economy. There’s something wonderful and magical about about military spending as opposed to other uses of tax money. It’s so magical that the costs of the massively expensive occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan were kept out of the regular budget for years. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/32 "2009-04-30T11:17:53Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > She’s also one of the ones who claims that the Depression ended due to World War II, a myth not only disproven but, to paraphrase Stephen Colbert, relies on the logic that “The Depression didn’t end due to the government pouring hundreds of billions of dollars we didn’t have into privately owned industries, it ended because World War II galvanized our economy by forcing the government to pour hundreds of billions of dollars we didn’t have to privately owned industries to make weapons!” I beg you – _beg_ you – not to flame me over my obvious ignorance here, but … I guess I haven’t learned that history as well as I thought. What ended the Depression? I would like to say, in my own hastily mustered defence, I haven’t been making any statements about this or any topic on national television, and if I were to do so, I would check my facts first, promise! ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/33 "2009-04-30T13:12:03Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Now, Hindus taking offense at “Mad Cow Disease” would make more sense, although I suppose they could say “Well, that’s what happens when you godsless Westerners _eat_ them.” I saw what you did there… well played. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/34 "2009-04-30T13:33:00Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I beg you – _beg_ you – not to flame me over my obvious ignorance here, but … I guess I haven’t learned that history as well as I thought. What ended the Depression? > > I would like to say, in my own hastily mustered defence, I haven’t been making any statements about this or any topic on national television, and if I were to do so, I would check my facts first, promise! It depends on who you ask, but the conventional economic wisdom was that the Great Depression was ended by President F. D. Roosevelt’s “New Deal” programs, which included a massive amount of government spending including but not limited to government-created jobs in infrastructure construction and the beginning of Social Security. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/35 "2009-04-30T14:22:24Z")
I think the evidence is pretty strong that recovery was due to reforms in the banking, securities and monetary sectors - these happened very early in the Roosevelt term. The rest of it is very arguable - the NRA was quickly found to be unconstitutional in the _Schechter_ case, the Wagner Act wasn’t a well balanced labor bill and probable held up recovery to some degree by encouraging strikes, and things like the CCC were very much products of that era and don’t have much to tell us now, in an age when public works projects must be planned years in advance and built by professionals. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/36 "2009-04-30T14:26:36Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > the current attempts by Republican pundits to rewrite history because they hate FDR so much. Is there still a push to replace his face on the dime with Reagan’s? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/37 "2009-04-30T14:31:54Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > The Wikipedia article on this Michelle Bachman person states that she is “also mentally retarded” as if any further proof is needed. (I understand that Wikipedia is NOT to be fully trusted.) > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele\_Bachmann](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michele_Bachmann) Good one. You made me look. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/38 "2009-04-30T14:32:13Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > …in an age when public works projects must be planned years in advance … Then how was it possible to replace the [collapsed I-35W bridge in Minnesota](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge) in less than 14 months from the date of the disaster? ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/39 "2009-04-30T14:33:05Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I think the evidence is pretty strong that recovery was due to reforms in the banking, securities and monetary sectors - these happened very early in the Roosevelt term. > > The rest of it is very arguable - the NRA was quickly found to be unconstitutional in the _Schechter_ case, the Wagner Act wasn’t a well balanced labor bill and probable held up recovery to some degree by encouraging strikes, and things like the CCC were very much products of that era and don’t have much to tell us now, in an age when public works projects must be planned years in advance and built by professionals. I dont think those reforms would have had time to work if the US had exploded in poverty-caused riots or elected some fascist or comunist totalitarian to replace Roosevelt, and, appart from any other influence on the economy, the New Deal programs helped people to live through the Depression, either giving them jobs, food and shelter or at least giving them the feeling that the government was doing **something** to help them. A purely laizzes faire capitalism government would not have lasted. That without mentioning the Keynesian Stimulus that the programs (and later WW 2) gave to the economy. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/40 "2009-04-30T14:56:38Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > I beg you – _beg_ you – not to flame me over my obvious ignorance here, but … I guess I haven’t learned that history as well as I thought. What ended the Depression? [It’s a matter of some debate.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Depression#Turning_point_and_recovery) > [@](#): > > In most countries of the world recovery from the Great Depression began between late 1931 and early 1933.[3] Economic studies have indicated that just as the downturn was spread worldwide by the rigidities of the Gold Standard, it was suspending gold convertibility (or devaluing the currency in gold terms) that did most to make recovery possible.[34] What policies countries followed after casting off gold and what results they got varied widely. > > In the United States recovery began in the spring of 1933.[3] There is no consensus among economists regarding the motive force for the U.S. economic expansion that continued through most of the Roosevelt years (and the sharp contraction of the 1937 recession that interrupted it). According to Christina Romer, the money supply growth caused by huge gold inflows was a crucial source of the recovery of the United States economy, and that fiscal policy and World War II were of little help. The gold inflows were partly due to devaluation of the U.S. dollar and partly due to deterioration of political situation in Europe.[35] In their book, A Monetary History of the United States, Milton Friedman and Anna J. Schwartz also laid the recovery to monetary factors, and contended that it was much slowed by poor management of money by the Federal Reserve System. Current Chairman of the Federal Reserve Ben Bernanke agrees that monetary factors played important role both in the worldwide economic decline and eventual recovery.[36] Bernanke, also sees a strong role for institutional factors, particularly the rebuilding and restructuring of the financial system,[37] and points out that the Depression needs to be examined in international perspective.[38] Many economists, exemplified by Harold L. Cole and Lee E. Ohanian, believe that the economy should very quickly have returned to normal except for continued depressing influences, and point the finger to the lack of downward flexibility in prices and wages, encouraged by Roosevelt Administration polices such as the National Industrial Recovery Act.[39] Some economists have called attention to the expectations of reflation and rising nominal interest rates that Roosevelt’s words and actions portended.[40] As for the effect of the New Deal, [that also is debated.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal#Critical_interpretations_of_New_Deal_economic_policies) The theory that it made the Depression worse is held by a minority of economists and a very small minority of historians. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774.md?page=3)