# Michelle Bachman again (maybe there should be a sticky) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 29, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774 "2009-04-29T21:21:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/41 "2009-04-30T15:40:30Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Then how was it possible to replace the [collapsed I-35W bridge in Minnesota](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-35W_Mississippi_River_bridge) in less than 14 months from the date of the disaster? Well, for one thing, there was already a bridge there. New public works projects have a long period of regulatory approval and public comment - this was not needed in the case of an existing structure to the same degree. To the degree that public comment was required for the new span - this was expedited and citizen comments were incorporated quickly. These included making the new bridge light-rail ready. Doing this forestalled any lawsuits from aggravated parties. Lastly, in following links from your cite, it seems financial incentives were wisely built into the contract to ensure quick completion, and the bridge didn’t need traffic planning, flagmen and the like since the old bridge was gone. Lastly, the bridge was built by experienced bridge contractors. A CCC couldn’t have built this bridge. Even during the New Deal CCC projects were of a smaller scale than this. And the WPA wouldn’t have built the bridge quickly - they were rather infamous for their inefficiency. Running jokes at the time said the WPA stood for “We Poke Along,” “We Piddle Around,” or “Whistle Piss and Argue.” So this case was in many ways atypical, and shouldn’t be the example we measure public works projects against. While I would agree that we might learn some things from this project and its fast completion, those lessons won’t apply across the board. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/42 "2009-04-30T15:55:33Z")
Well then, I’m not quite as ignorant of the Great Depression as I had just feared, which is quite the relief. I knew that things had been terrible at the beginning of the 30’s, and then got slowly better due to several factors, but I had thought that the key to ending it altogether was the US getting into WWII – massive spending on the military and on factories producing materiel for the war effort, plus employment as GIs for so many men, plus employment at said factories for so many others, plus a goodly amount of the rest of the developed world dealing with the devastation of war = Profit! Plus superpower status in the decades to come. Not so? Or too simplistic? ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/43 "2009-04-30T16:14:16Z")
I’d always thought that a big part of the exit from the Depression was the Lend Lease program where we sold big, expensive weapons to other world powers. Lend-Lease only started in 1941, but England and Russia were getting nervous many years before that. So maybe the trick is getting other countries to bop each other over the head and then selling them the big sticks. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/44 "2009-04-30T16:29:47Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > I’d always thought that a big part of the exit from the Depression was the Lend Lease program where we sold big, expensive weapons to other world powers. Lend-Lease only started in 1941, but England and Russia were getting nervous many years before that. Not really. We never really expected to get any of the lend-leased equipment back. The UK, China and Russia were in no position to pay for much of it anyway. Most repayments took the form of barter: permission to set up military bases on UK territories, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/45 "2009-04-30T16:43:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Most repayments took the form of barter: permission to set up military bases on UK territories, etc. That would be the lease part, and there are an awful lot of Air Force and Navy bases still on British territory. I think an awful lot of sailors still miss NAS Bermuda. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/46 "2009-04-30T16:45:37Z")
> [@shantih](#): > > Well then, I’m not quite as ignorant of the Great Depression as I had just feared, which is quite the relief. I knew that things had been terrible at the beginning of the 30’s, and then got slowly better due to several factors, but I had thought that the key to ending it altogether was the US getting into WWII – massive spending on the military and on factories producing materiel for the war effort, plus employment as GIs for so many men, plus employment at said factories for so many others, plus a goodly amount of the rest of the developed world dealing with the devastation of war = Profit! Plus superpower status in the decades to come. > > Not so? Or too simplistic? In fact, not so in the least. The US set a new record high GDP in 1936. FDR’s new deal had reduced unemployment from 25% to 15% in 1936 (or under 10% if you don’t count as unemployed those people who actually were employed by New Deal workfare programs). When do you want to argue that industrial production building up to WWII began? I’d suggest not prior to 1939. Do you want to suggest that it happened before the Anschluss in 1938? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/47 "2009-04-30T16:49:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There’s also some bonus Bachman nuttiness in the linked interview where she says that CO2 makes up 3% of the atmosphere (if that were true, we’d all have gills). I’ll give her a pass on that one. It’s actually .03%. I could see how you might get mixed up with decimals vs %, and not notice that _both_ were employed. Kinda like that .02 cents thing with the phone company. Of course a reasonable person would realize their mistake and be embarrassed. But for the rest, yeah. Bat shit crazy. If only we could get her hooked on crack cocaine and make a reality TV show out of it. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/48 "2009-04-30T16:59:15Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > But for the rest, yeah. Bat shit crazy. If only we could get her hooked on crack cocaine and make a reality TV show out of it. Nah, get her and Cynthia McKinney sharing a house and make a reality show out of that. (Now on C-SPAN: “The Unreal World: DC”) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/49 "2009-04-30T17:01:45Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > I’ll give her a pass on that one. It’s actually .03%. It’s been closer to 0.4% for the better part of 20 years- currently 387 parts per million, or 0.0387%. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/50 "2009-04-30T17:05:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s been closer to\*\* 0.4%\*\* for the better part of 20 years- currently 387 parts per million, or **0.0387** %. See how easy it is to make decimal mistakes? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/51 "2009-04-30T17:05:59Z")
I’m curious. Just HOW batshit crazy would Bachman have to get before rank and file Republicans spoke up and disowned her? Is she close to the line now? Not even close? My take is that she has a lot farther to go before most voting Republicans would say anything. (especially given the mass defection of “middle of the road” republicans away from the party) I’d say she’d have to call a national press conference for “matters of urgent national security”, and then on live TV to a huge audience, appear in a suit made entirely of Saran Wrap, and call upon all right minded Americans to throw off the yolk of the evil Lizard People who are currently running the world. Even then, 20% would probably agree with her. ---
**Author:** ![shantih](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f6c823/32.png) [@shantih](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shantih)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/52 "2009-04-30T17:47:29Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > In fact, not so in the least. > > The US set a new record high GDP in 1936. FDR’s new deal had reduced unemployment from 25% to 15% in 1936 (or under 10% if you don’t count as unemployed those people who actually were employed by New Deal workfare programs). > > When do you want to argue that industrial production building up to WWII began? I’d suggest not prior to 1939. Do you want to suggest that it happened before the Anschluss in 1938? I would agree – 1939 as the earliest that preparations for war could have affected the US economy, with the major effects after the attack on Pearl Harbor. I’m realizing that I need to brush up on my history in a serious way. This is new information for me. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/53 "2009-04-30T18:05:56Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > In fact, not so in the least. > > The US set a new record high GDP in 1936. And then went into a recession in 1937 that wiped out many of the New Deal’s previous gains. Did you forget that part, or just conveniently omit it? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/54 "2009-04-30T18:13:14Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I’m curious. Just HOW batshit crazy would Bachman have to get before rank and file Republicans spoke up and disowned her? With Specter’s defection this week and the ground they’ve already lost, she could probably safely defecate on the White House lawn in front of a battery of cameras and have job security. I’m going to go with “on camera murder of an infant” before they’d start to divide. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/55 "2009-04-30T18:16:58Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > And then went into a recession in 1937 that wiped out many of the New Deal’s previous gains. > > Did you forget that part, or just conveniently omit it? No, I sure didn’t. The point I was contending was the argument that the US “got slowly better” and didn’t recover until WWII. The New Deal led to rapid and direct improvements that persisted until FDR was swayed to curtail his new deal recovery programs in favor of pushing for a balanced budget. He did, and the economy faltered, providing a nice A-B-A real world experimental test of the effects of government spending versus tight fiscal policy during severe economic downturns. Or did you conveniently forget that? ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/56 "2009-04-30T18:18:06Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > With Specter’s defection this week and the ground they’ve already lost, she could probably safely defecate on the White House lawn in front of a battery of cameras and have job security. I’m going to go with “on camera murder of an infant” before they’d start to divide. Child has to be white female, and she probably has to try to seduce it first. ETA: i.e. convert it to teh gay. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/57 "2009-04-30T18:20:22Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > And then went into a recession in 1937 that wiped out many of the New Deal’s previous gains. > > Did you forget that part, or just conveniently omit it? And do you know what caused that 1937 recession? Conservatives prevailed on FDR to [cut the the deficit by cutting spending](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/10/opinion/10krugman.html?_r=3&hp). > [@](#): > > And F.D.R. wasn’t just reluctant to pursue an all-out fiscal expansion — he was eager to return to conservative budget principles. That eagerness almost destroyed his legacy. After winning a smashing election victory in 1936, the Roosevelt administration cut spending and raised taxes, precipitating an economic relapse that drove the unemployment rate back into double digits and led to a major defeat in the 1938 midterm elections. > What saved the economy, and the New Deal, was the enormous public works project known as World War II, which finally provided a fiscal stimulus adequate to the economy’s needs. If it wasn’t for that misguided attempt to wimp out on the recovery and cut spending, the Depression might have ended years earlier. ---
**Author:** ![chique](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@chique](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chique)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/58 "2009-04-30T18:27:08Z")
**DISCLAIMER: This is why discussions regarding economics go completely over my head.** > [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > I have actually seen a guy claim the following: > > 1. World War 2 was massive government spending. > 2. World War 2 helped the economy. > 3. Therefore, massive government spending cannot help the economy. So…by this logic, we should be on our knees thanking Bush for the massive spending on the Iraq war? I’m not trying to start a fight - this is a serious question. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/59 "2009-04-30T18:44:39Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > See how easy it is to make decimal mistakes? 😛 Oh, sominabitch! :smack: Who knew Gaudere’s Law applied to arithmetic? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774/60 "2009-04-30T18:53:24Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Or did you conveniently forget that? I forget nothing. It isn’t as if the Republicans had a lock on economic wisdom in this era - the Smoot-Hawley tariff is proof of that alone. Still, I think modern liberals tend to look toward the New Deal way too often as inspiration, since when pressed they will generally admit that they wouldn’t want specific New Deal methods employed today. Admit it, **Hentor** , would you be comfortable with a modern-day NRA that kept prices artificially high, propped up big firms at the expense of small business and employed poorly planned but ruthlessly enforced regulation to keep things going? How would this work in our economy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-bachman-again-maybe-there-should-be-a-sticky/494774.md?page=4)