# Michelle Duggar has another miscarriage. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 8, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566 "2011-12-08T23:34:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/61 "2011-12-10T02:56:20Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > To Lavender Blue: > > No, fertility treatments are probably not DIRECTLY related to the cancer that eventually killed Elizabeth Edwards. But she had to FLOOD her body with hormones to achieve her last two pregnancies, and then she neglected to have yearly mammograms. Breast cancer is often very sensitive to hormones, and it is quite likely the hormones accelerated something her body had been cultivating for quite some time. > ~VOW Cite? Because the article I brought up points out that pregnancy and nursing decrease your odds of breast cancer. Niursing is widely noted fertility supressor and linked with a decrease in reproductive cancers, especially if you nurse for at least six months. I am not a doctor but I think the probable answer about what caused Elizabeth Edwards’ cancer is that we don’t really know. The evidence on mammograms is actually sort of contradictory. My own OB told me I should get one each year once I’ve stopped nursing even though the official recommendation is now otherwise for women in their forties. BTW, it is quite likely, given her age, that her last two pregnancies were donor eggs. DE does not involve the use of as many hormones as traditional IVF treatment as the woman in question is not seeking to produce multiple eggs. I don’t think it quite accurate to state that she “flooded” her body with hormones anymore that it might be to state that of any other woman who had three children. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/62 "2011-12-10T04:40:24Z")
IIRC, she and her husband started out using birth control early on in their marriage, and she was convinced it caused her to have a miscarriage. Like I said before, they remind me of animal hoarders. On this time with children. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/63 "2011-12-10T04:50:47Z")
> [@3\_20\_59\_or\_bust](#): > > Like Lynn, I’m going to call “bullshit” on this one. Many women had 18+ children? No. Not in the recent past. Not ever. > > They’re not puppies - they don’t shoot out 10 or 12 at a time! The reason humans can’t have 18+ normally is because it takes almost a year to make just one. 18+ kids is just near-impossible to do. My wording was wrong. I didn’t mean, “Of all living women in xyz time period, many (as in a suggestion of most) had 18+ children.” But ten, twelve, fifteen pregnancies would not have been unusual. Some may have died in utero and some in a young age, but that’s still getting knocked up. And babies that made it to full term would count. I mean its’ been done before. I have a feeling Dopers would be riled at 8 or 12. Bleh. I don’t like telling people what to do with their uteruses. It seems like the Duggars can provide for their kids and they love them. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/64 "2011-12-10T14:44:05Z")
While women did commonly have more pregnancies in the past, I doubt that it was as many as a dozen per woman. My Grandma Bodoni was an observant Catholic, and she only had half a dozen kids…and as far as I know, no miscarriages. Now, it’s quite possible that I wasn’t told of miscarriages, but I very much doubt that she had miscarried half of her pregnancies. The thing is, people knew that sex caused pregnancies, so a lot of people avoided sex if they didn’t want to have a kid. From what I’ve heard, Grandma Bodoni (and I presume Grandpa Bodoni) had dry spells of a couple of years between the birth of one child and the pregnancy of the next, precisely because they didn’t want to have more kids. The Duggars might be able to financially provide for their kids, but the adults are not really parenting. They shift that burden on to the older kids. And I really have to question whether they love those kids for themselves, or only as arrows in that quiver. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/65 "2011-12-10T14:58:25Z")
Maybe if they weren’t so eager to shift child-rearing responsibilities to older siblings (and volunteers who step in to help), the parents would be too tired to have sex. Large families are naturally self-regulating in this way. ---
**Author:** ![Ruffian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/71e660/32.png) [@Ruffian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruffian)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/66 "2011-12-10T15:26:23Z")
From [a 10yro article put out by the CDC on Achievements in Public Health 1900-1999](http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm4847a1.htm), emphasis mine: > [@](#): > > Family size declined between **1800 and 1900 from 7.0 to 3.5 children** (4). In 1900, six to nine of every 1000 women died in childbirth, and one in five children died during the first 5 years of life.\* Distributing information and counseling patients about contraception and contraceptive devices was illegal under federal and state laws (8,9); the timing of ovulation, the length of the fertile period, and other reproductive facts were unknown… > > In 1912, the modern birth-control movement began…In 1928, the timing of ovulation was established medically, but the safe interval for intercourse was mistakenly understood to include half the menstrual period (13). Nevertheless, by **1933, the average family size had declined to 2.3 children**." ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/67 "2011-12-11T04:17:08Z")
> [@Blackberry](#): > > I know he’s nuts but I don’t know all the details. Give us the details! I could start an ‘ask the’ thread if anyone is interested. It certainly was an interesting experience. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/68 "2011-12-11T04:24:16Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I could start an ‘ask the’ thread if anyone is interested. It certainly was an interesting experience. Please do. I’ve read a bunch on [No Longer Quivering](http://nolongerquivering.com/), but would very much appreciate hearing your personal experiences. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/69 "2011-12-11T04:30:44Z")
> [@Antinor01](#): > > I could start an ‘ask the’ thread if anyone is interested. It certainly was an interesting experience. Like you even have to ask. Of course we do! ---
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/70 "2011-12-11T04:38:08Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Please do. I’ve read a bunch on [No Longer Quivering](http://nolongerquivering.com/), but would very much appreciate hearing your personal experiences. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14552849#post14552849](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14552849#post14552849) There ya go. ---
**Author:** ![Indygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@Indygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indygrrl)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/71 "2011-12-11T05:12:52Z")
Too bad Michelle Duggar doesn’t seem to be capable of giving her existing children a fraction of the interest and energy she puts into staying pregnant. I disagree with just about everything that family does. It makes no sense at all for them to have 20 kids that they don’t educate or allow out into the world. I feel especially sorry for the older daughters and the neglected little kids. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/72 "2011-12-11T06:50:50Z")
The largest average family size of any religion in the U.S. is Hasidic Jews; they have an average of 8 children. ([Cite](http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48899452.html)) That’s more than the two religions most commonly associated with large families- Mormons (~4) and Catholics (~3)- combined. (Mormons and Catholics, at least as individuals, seem to have relaxed some of their stances on birth control in the past half century while to the Hasidim it’s still a really major no-no.) What’s interesting is that the number of average children of a Hasidic, Mormon, and Catholic family combined would still be less than the Duggers with room left over for a Protestant family. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/73 "2011-12-11T07:08:21Z")
Yikes! Maybe 18 pregnancies is exceedingly rare. Hasidic Jews also may practice birth control. My grandmother had 12 pregnancies (and purposely dry periods as well), but only 7 kids. But if you have multiples, that quickly ups your number. So ultra-Orthodox families may have 10 plus kids. I guess 18 is a stretch. But even if the woman had ten kids, again, I think Dopers would be judgy. Also, the Duggars have two sets of twins. I guess if they’ve been having kids at a young age and are still having them…she’s still in her ‘childbearing’ years. Not that I think having a billion kids is a good idea. I just can’t judge other people’s actions when it comes to this. ---
**Author:** ![anya\_marie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@anya\_marie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anya_marie)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2011, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/74 "2011-12-11T07:37:56Z")
So many pregnancies and deliveries has got to put a fuckton of stress on a body; especially when her last pregnancy ended with a premature baby girl, a c-section and what else? She is pushing luck as hard as she can and it might not end well. She could die, have a Down’s syndrome baby and who knows what else. I don’t agree with her religion or her way of life but this is a huge train-wreck, happening in full view of everyone. I don’t know if these kids have access to library cards but you can get romance novels and pick up stuff about sex that way/. ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/75 "2011-12-12T01:38:49Z")
> [@Indygrrl](#): > > Too bad Michelle Duggar doesn’t seem to be capable of giving her existing children a fraction of the interest and energy she puts into staying pregnant. I disagree with just about everything that family does. It makes no sense at all for them to have 20 kids that they don’t educate or allow out into the world. I feel especially sorry for the older daughters and the neglected little kids. This was my thought. First and foremost, I feel badly for the children of this couple. I’ve never seen the TV show, so I have no idea how things work in this family… but to have that many children deprives them all of a certain level of bonding with the parents. Maybe that’s to be expected in their religion, i don’t know. And if one of her older children starts having children of her own, does mom get to stop? For a woman, I’d think this type of religion would suck, because it seems that you are expected to be on your back immediately following the birth of your child, in a perpetual state of uterine jiffy-popping until menopause. Putting these people on TV is as irresponsible as them trying to continue to procreate. Television executives are money whores who just exploit others for their own personal gain. TLC execs can’t wait for her to get pregnant again, and I’m sure another miscarriage would be just fine, especially during sweeps week! And if she died? Bonus ratings! I really think it would be great if they would drag these two onto Maury Povich, and get that cheap, pathetic, poor man’s excuse for Jerry Springer to go through a DNA testing on all 19 kids. How much would it be worth to hear “You are NOT the father!” The continuation of this nation’s decline continues. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/76 "2011-12-12T01:53:55Z")
> [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > The continuation of this nation’s decline continues. Please. Michelle Duggar is one woman, not an army. And the number of Quiverful families is still really small. Her existence is not an indication of the nation’s decline, and her reality show is a blip especially in comparison to the “how wasted am I?!?!” reality shows like Jersey Shore. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/77 "2011-12-12T01:55:42Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The largest average family size of any religion in the U.S. is Hasidic Jews; they have an average of 8 children. ([Cite](http://www.aish.com/jw/s/48899452.html)) That’s more than the two religions most commonly associated with large families- Mormons (~4) and Catholics (~3)- combined. (Mormons and Catholics, at least as individuals, seem to have relaxed some of their stances on birth control in the past half century while to the Hasidim it’s still a really major no-no.) What’s interesting is that the number of average children of a Hasidic, Mormon, and Catholic family combined would still be less than the Duggers with room left over for a Protestant family. Indeed, the large families that I am personally aware of are all Hasidic Jews. Knowing them is what makes me wary of judging people with large families, even though I don’t expect to have many children myself. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/78 "2011-12-12T02:08:26Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > The problem about her “calling it quits” is that they are members of the Quiverful movement, who put all control of their reproduction in the hands of God. So, if they follow the movement’s theology, she will not get her tubes tied, he will not get a vasectomy, and whatever happens next will happen. Man: “Oh God, why have you forsaken me?” God: “_Forsaken you?!_ I sent you a man in a canoe, a rescue boat and a helicopter, what more did you want? Sheesh.” ---
**Author:** ![crypto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b3f665/32.png) [@crypto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crypto)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/79 "2011-12-12T02:17:06Z")
> [@Kolga](#): > > Please. Michelle Duggar is one woman, not an army. And the number of Quiverful families is still really small. Her existence is not an indication of the nation’s decline, and her reality show is a blip especially in comparison to the “how wasted am I?!?!” reality shows like Jersey Shore. Each part is another straw on the camel’s back. And Michelle Duggar may be one woman, but she is reproducing like a queen at the center of a beehive. 20 kids - not an entire army, but what… a couple of squads, or half a platoon? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2011, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566/80 "2011-12-12T02:23:41Z")
This Quiverfull movement reminds me of Robert Silverberg’s novel _[The World Inside.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_Inside)_ > [@](#): > > The novel is set on Earth in the year 2381, when the population of the planet has reached 75 billion people. Population growth has skyrocketed due to a quasi-religious belief in human reproduction as the highest possible good. Most of the action occurs in a massive three-kilometer high city-tower called Urban Monad 116. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-duggar-has-another-miscarriage/605566.md?page=5)