# Michelle Obama must be disowned! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799 "2010-03-25T21:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/41 "2010-03-26T14:59:59Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > She’s right. > … > But real pizza was invented in New York, … I agree. And at the time, the only topping offered was extra cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/42 "2010-03-26T15:05:50Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > I’m not sure how relevant this is anyway, as the OP is presumably referring to “Chicago style” pizza a-la Unos/Malnatis/Giordanos. We Chicagoans posting in this thread are saying “big deal” to the OMG-shock announcement that Michelle Obama doesn’t really like “Chicago style” pizza, as we aren’t all that thrilled about it either, and are saying we don’t really eat it that often. Personally, the last time I ate it, a friend visiting from DC insisted on going somewhere to eat some, so we went to Pizzeria Due. That was over a year ago, I think. I wouldn’t call all of what we eat “New York style” as there are a variety of crust styles around here. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/43 "2010-03-26T15:09:36Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > Okay, what non-Chicagoans aren’t grasping is that the deep dish “Chicago style” pizza is NOT actually the standard pizza that people eat on a regular basis in Chicago. It’s easy to get, true enough, and it’s a bit of a famous curiosity, so if you visit Chicago, having some is a Thing To Do, but if your random Chicagoan doesn’t feel like cooking and wants to order in a pizza, they’re probably not going to get a deep dish. They’ll get a thin crust. I’m not an expert, but AFACT, it’s pretty similar to the New York style. Very thin, crispy, and tasty. This is correct. As I mentioned above, I was born-and-raised here, in the city, and did not have my first deep dish until high school. The standard pizza in Chicago, though, is not New York style. It is thin, but not usually foldable (the crust varies at places, but mostly strives to be towards the crispy cracker end of the spectrum, which is not conducive to folding. The inner part of the pizza will usually fold, but the outer parts get too crisp to do so without cracking.) Besides that, it is cut into little squares like [this](http://www.flickr.com/photos/chicagopizzatours/4383281355/). The reason behind this, so far as I know, is this style of pizza (which is sometimes refered to as “tavern pizza”) was served in bars as a snack to go with your beer, and it was easier to share with many appetizer-sized “party” cuts than the standard pie cut. Other differences: the Chicago thin crust tends to be a bit heavier on the cheese and toppings than the New York counterpart. The most popular topping around here is probably sausage, which is chunks of loose Italian sausage, as opposed to slices of sausage more commonly seen in New York. Sausage-mushroom-green pepper (sometimes with onion) is probably the most common topping combo – at least it’s common enough to be the “special” at many local pizzareias. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/44 "2010-03-26T15:14:34Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > We Chicagoans posting in this thread are saying “big deal” to the OMG-shock announcement that Michelle Obama doesn’t really like “Chicago style” pizza, except, you know, the OP. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/45 "2010-03-26T15:17:15Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > yes, the standard pizza that people eat on a regular basis in Chicago would be your standard papa john’s/dominos/pizza hut fare. I wouldn’t be surprised if things have changed, but in my experience, everybody has their favorite local pizza joint. The standard pizza would come from one of those places and is a bit different than the PJ’s/Domino’s/Pizza Hut. I literally cannot remember the last time I was at a party where a pizza from one of those places was served. It’s invariably a local pizzeria or local chain, which makes Chicago-style thin crust. Then again, my sample may be biased as they tend to be my age (mid-30s) and tend to have grown up here (so have certain food biases.) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/46 "2010-03-26T15:26:41Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > except, you know, the OP. We’re outvoting him. 😛 The newscasts are making a big deal about it too, but I literally cannot remember the last time I knew a Chicagoan/Chicagoland-ian who wanted to get “Chicago style” pizza. Wait, I can, but it was when I was visiting from out of state as a grad student recruit and some grad students at the University of Chicago took me to Pizzeria Uno. (That was more years ago than I care to admit.) They were treating the tourist to what a tourist might reasonably expect out of Chicago pizza, considering the Big Fucking Deal that news stories like this make out of this variety of pizza. I did kind of like the Lou Malnati’s deep-dish that I got from a visiting pharma rep a few years ago, but that’s because it had giardiniera on it. Giardiniera makes everything yummier. My standard pizza is from a local (non-chain) Italian restaurant/pizzeria that delivers. Great stuff, Chicago-variety thin crust, and I love getting sliced portabella mushrooms and black olives on it. Mmmmm. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/47 "2010-03-26T16:13:50Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > You don’t go to Milwaukee for a cheesesteak [_Hey!_](http://www.thephillyway.com/) > [@](#): > > The Philly Way has received numerous awards and just about every food critics choice as the “BEST” sandwich in Milwaukee. Recently Philadelphia Magazine had picked them as the best Cheese Steak in America 2 years in a row. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/48 "2010-03-26T16:25:40Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > [_Hey!_](http://www.thephillyway.com/) Awesome. I think I have a new culinary destination for the next time I’m in Milwaukee. ---
**Author:** ![liberty3701](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3d9bf3/32.png) [@liberty3701](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liberty3701)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/49 "2010-03-26T16:41:10Z")
> [@Tibbytoes](#): > > The best pizza comes from New Jersey; this proclamation is self-evident and incontrovertible. You should try [Val’s Tavern](http://www.valstavern.com/Welcome/Home.html) in Rumson, NJ. And then leave, because the rest of Rumson is horrible. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/50 "2010-03-26T17:08:06Z")
> [@Slypork](#): > > I _knew_ there was a reason I didn’t like her! According to [this site](http://gothamist.com/2010/03/25/michelle_obama_grimaldis_better_tha.php) Michelle Obama basically declared that New York style pizza is better than Chicago Style! First she wasn’t proud of her country and now this. She is not a true Chicagoan, just like her husband isn’t an American citizen (he even liked pizza from [St. Louis](http://www.people.com/people/article/0,,20271608,00.html), of all places :eek: ). > > Why, I bet she even puts :shudder: ketchup on her hot dogs and roots for the Packers. > > Someone has to stop them before they ruin their daughters. As long as she doesn’t root for the NY Yankees, she’s all right with me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/51 "2010-03-26T17:13:06Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > Because you posted this, I’m pretty sure that you and I can’t legally ever have another conversation. And after all the times I slaved over a wet bar tending for you in mafia! _sob_ ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/52 "2010-03-26T17:20:11Z")
> [@Tibbytoes](#): > > Mr. Briston is correct. The best pizza comes from New Jersey; this proclamation is self-evident and incontrovertible. While loosely based on the New York Style, Jersey pies are made by those Italians who know how to cook. Word. If there’s one thing New Jersey Italians know how to make, it’s gravy. Italian mamas around here commonly have an extra stove in the basement just to make it. (And for the uninitiated–gravy is tomato sauce.) > [@pulykamell](#): > > The most popular topping around here is probably sausage, which is chunks of loose Italian sausage, as opposed to slices of sausage more commonly seen in New York. IME, the crumbled sausage is far more common than the sliced around here too. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/53 "2010-03-26T17:30:22Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > IME, the crumbled sausage is far more common than the sliced around here too. Must be the places I visited, then. Seemed like everywhere I went in Manhattan and Hoboken, they had some type of sliced, brown sausage. Or it could be that I’ve never seen sausage refer to anything but crumbly sausage pizza in Chicago, while out on the East Coast it can be either, so only the oddities stood out for me. edit: [This is the type of sausage I remember seeing a lot of.](http://slice.seriouseats.com/images/20080903-vitos-sausage-tomato.jpg) I don’t think that exists at all here or, if it does, it’s quite rare. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/54 "2010-03-26T18:26:25Z")
There are really two types of pizza defined as “Chicago Style,” though of those the deep dish is the most famous. I never liked the deep dish, but those times I’ve had it I was put off by what were essentially whole stewed tomatoes under the crust. The other style that is most commonly eaten is thin, and for me the features most valued are: cheese thick enough that the whole layer comes off if you try to pinch off any part of it, sauce that is zesty but not sweet. Sausage means Italian Sausage, and it is cut in squares, unless you’re buying it by the slice, in which case it’s radial. But… it varies widely. One common variation I find is the way-too-much-oregano style that a lot of joints in Chicago use, and I’ve never found anywhere else. And despite the fact that there are a number of great pizza joints in town, national franchises do just fine. I wonder whether they do change the recipe to reflect local tastes, because I once had a pizza from Domino’s in North Carolina that was fantastic. For me, the kind of pizza I used to get from Gigio’s on Broadway is what I compare the rest of the country’s pizza to, but it wasn’t itself that different from what you could get in most independent pizza joints in Uptown. ---
**Author:** ![ivn1188](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e480ec/32.png) [@ivn1188](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivn1188)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/55 "2010-03-26T18:31:00Z")
> [@Green\_Bean](#): > > (And for the uninitiated–gravy is tomato sauce.) Ugh, calling it gravy makes you sound like the Sopranos’ redneck-like “Italian”, with their Ricote cheese. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/56 "2010-03-26T18:36:12Z")
The best deep dish pizza isn’t even from Chicago. It’s from Champaign. Papa Del’s with mushroom, green peppers, and onions… ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/57 "2010-03-26T18:49:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > There are really two types of pizza defined as “Chicago Style,” though of those the deep dish is the most famous. To further add to the confusion, there are two types of Chicago-style deep dish: a stuffed style (as exemplified by Giordano’s, Edwardo’s, Art of Pizza, etc.) and the pan-style (Uno’s, Due’s, Malnati’s, Pequod’s, Burt’s, etc.) As for the thin crust, sweet-style sauces are quite common in Chicago (see Aurelio’s or Palermo’s for prime examples. My friends and I derisively refer to this style as “sugar sauce” pizza.) Sauce styles vary wildly from what is basically just crushed tomatoes with a little salt and maybe onion or garlic, to the sugar sauces, to the more heavily spiced oregano-and-dried-basil varieties. (And the best deep is from Burt’s in Morton Grove, IL.) ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/58 "2010-03-26T19:40:03Z")
Chicago-style deep dish pizza is the only kind worth having. and anyone who does not put ketchup on a hot dog is a monster who should be kept away from children and pets. 🙂 (same goes for anyone who spells it ‘catsup’, but that is another rant :D) ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/59 "2010-03-26T20:23:40Z")
> [@Kyla](#): > > They’ll get a thin crust. I’m not an expert, but AFACT, it’s pretty similar to the New York style. Very thin, crispy, and tasty. New York style isn’t crispy. Yeah, you can find crispy crust in NY, but that’s more of a “classic Italian” style, I think. Proper NY pizza is thin crust, but not _too_ thin, but it has to have big, floppy slices you can fold in half. And then the cheese all sildes off in the first bite and you have to decide to either slide it all into your mouth with that first bite, or tear it off and try to place it back on what’s left of your slice. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799/60 "2010-03-26T22:14:24Z")
New York style pizza is of the devil. Jesus would have picked Chicago style every time. And yes, I’m a ketchup on my dog kind of guy, and I eat bratwurst with brown mustard and no bun. Broncos fan–fuck East Coast football. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-must-be-disowned/533799.md?page=4)