# Michelle Obama rapes, I mean shakes hands with, Indonesian Minister **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 10, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133 "2010-11-10T02:27:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Baracus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/2bfe46/32.png) [@Baracus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baracus)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/21 "2010-11-10T13:40:13Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > From reading the article in the OP, I gather that the minister, whose handshake with Michelle Obama created news in Indonesia, is actually atypical in his conservatism, so I’m not surprised that Michelle Obama reached out to shake his hand. It sounds like there was a line of people greeting her and her husband, and she was shaking hands with everybody. It would be hard to guess that this one person would create a media sensation by shaking her hand. Right. He was one guy out of a whole line of people and was apparently the only one that had a problem with having his hand shook. It isn’t a matter of knowing local customs. It is a matter of knowing the preferences of this one particular guy. Watching the video, the whole thing is bullshit anyways. He did not show any hesitation and even clasped her hand with BOTH of his. Unless he was doubling down on the contact to cover-up his discomfort, I find his claim of being forced into the handshake dubious at best. I guess it shouldn’t be surprising that the same crowd that think Muslims in general can’t be trusted would take this guy at his word given the circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/22 "2010-11-10T14:01:03Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > . It would be hard to guess that this one person would create a media sensation by shaking her hand. Not really, its the job of the relevant staff and organisers to know this. And to make arrangements for it. Even for the very simple events, with non important people, that I used to arrange in an unprofessional manner I would know who had special dietary requirements, who was needing to leave early, and what topics should be avoided. What more so for someone this important should the details be taken care of. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/23 "2010-11-10T14:22:39Z")
> [@appleciders](#): > > He did. He smiled and shook her hand, being polite even though it’s against his cultural norms. That was a gracious way to deal with what could have been an embarrassment to her. What he did at the **handshaking event** was fine; the ungracious part was saying later that she all but hand-raped him, when it’s clearly not the case. Ms. Obama was was well within the bounds of the social occaision she had presumably been briefed on. Had he wished not to shake a woman’s hand he could have done so gracefully. **He is the diplomat. She is the visiting dignitary. They are not held to the same standard, and the standard for the diplomat is and should be higher.** Nothing she did was in violation of ordinary local customs. I am sick and tired of it automatically being assumed there are Ignorant Americans about so the American must be assumed to be in the wrong (due to their gross Ignorant Americanism, you know how ignorant Americans are), as opposed to local political crybabies who want to get in the news. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/24 "2010-11-10T15:04:21Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > “The thread’s description of what occurred?” I think I missed that part It was this, > [@CairoCarol](#): > > In essence, a conservative Moslem minister who does not believe in handshaking with women was caught on video shaking hands with Michelle Obama, but he’s trying to say she forced him to do so although people say that the video suggests otherwise. (I don’t think the video shows much at all one way or the other, frankly, but he is smiling graciously). You must forgive your readers for taking you at your word. The only inaccurate inference taken was that Mrs. Obama initiated something that was unexpected in the context of what was going on. To cut quickly to the chase, I would have quoted the article, > [@AP](#): > > In footage of the official welcome, Sembiring appeared to share his countrymen’s enthusiasm. He smiled broadly as he shook the president’s hand and then reached with both hands to grasp Michelle Obama’s. But later he said she forced their contact. > > His denial was in a response to tweets from Indonesians who noted the handshake and questioned his long-standing claims that, as a good Muslim, he restricts his contact with women. > > Many posts had a “gotchya” quality to them. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/25 "2010-11-10T15:27:57Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Not really, its the job of the relevant staff and organisers to know this. And to make arrangements for it. I meant, it would be hard _for Michelle Obama_ to guess. I agree that if this is an issue, the Indonesian staff should be in charge of warning the visiting delegation. In this case, it wasn’t an issue during the meeting if you judge by the video and the article, it only became an issue when people asked the politician about his inconsistency of refusing to shake the hand of a female reporter. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2010, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/26 "2010-11-10T16:59:40Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > … The backlash in Indonesia is because it is perceived among many people that the minister is an annoying and insensitive jackass who smugly believes that his religious principles (which forbid him to touch a woman) make him so much better than other people. Thus, as he has now presented people with an opportunity to jeer at him, they are happily seizing it… This is what I’ve been hearing, too. It’s the equivalent of Larry “Wide Stance” Craig being on record as being all crazy homophobic and then (allegedly) soliciting gay sex, or Elliot “You Paid WHAT For A Hooker?!?” Spitzer prosecuting people left and right for every immoral act under the sun and then .. well, you know the rest. A smug holier-than-thou politician is being exposed as a monumental hypocrite, and it gets people talkin’. Throw in some religious ultraconservatism + women’s rights, and it goes international. I’ll admit, my very first thought when I first heard about this yesterday (via Salon’s [broadsheet](http://www.salon.com/life/broadsheet/index.html)) was: "Wonder what **ZPGZealot** will say about this … " ---
**Author:** ![CairoCarol](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cairocarol/32/3825_2.png) [@CairoCarol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CairoCarol)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/27 "2010-11-11T00:34:06Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > You must forgive your readers for taking you at your word. My word: > [@](#): > > people say that the video suggests [that Michelle Obama did NOT force the Minister to shake her hand]…I don’t think the video shows much at all one way or the other Rachel’s word: > [@](#): > > …it’s still a faux pax But enough of this. If people think my OP was intended to convey the message that Michelle Obama was in the wrong, perhaps I was unclear. Let me be unambiguous: \* Michelle Obama did not make a faux pas and no one except for the weaselly minister who is generally regarded as a joke is claiming she did.\* I like the “wide stance” comparison by **purplehorseshoe** , it’s quite apt. The guy got caught being a hypocrite, and now he wants everyone to swallow a lame story that is only making people laugh at him. ---
**Author:** ![kittenblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ba8739/32.png) [@kittenblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kittenblue)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/28 "2010-11-11T00:35:20Z")
From the video I watched, he looked very eager and pleased to shake Mrs. Obama’s hand. He was beaming, grinning from ear to ear and when one hand wasn’t enough he used two. We ask an awful lot of our politicians and their spouses, and I would not expect them to remember, when quickly going down a line of people, all the quirks and foibles of each and every person they are greeting.If he didn’t want to shake her hand he cold have put his behind his back and just nodded to her. But he didn’t, and his back-pedaling is quite amusing. ---
**Author:** ![Apollo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@Apollo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollo)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/29 "2010-11-11T01:09:46Z")
As diplomatic faux pas are concerned that’s pretty mild. As long as she hasn’t lost her dinner on the lap of her host, I’d say she’s ahead of the curve. The real question is if the Obama’s show too much deference to their hosts (“bowgate”) or too little (“handshake…gate”)? ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/30 "2010-11-11T01:17:34Z")
> [@CairoCarol](#): > > If people think my OP was intended to convey the message that Michelle Obama was in the wrong, perhaps I was unclear. I don’t think anyone thought that. > [@CairoCarol](#): > > Let me be unambiguous: > \* > Michelle Obama did not make a faux pas and no one except for the weaselly minister who is generally regarded as a joke is claiming she did.\* I agree. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133/31 "2010-11-11T02:24:30Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > First she hugs Queen Elizabeth and now this. > > This woman is just out of control. My sister, who is both a Rabid Republican and the widow of a military officer was invited to a tea hosted by THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND, or whatever her official title is. Per my sister, the Protocol Officer lectured the Air Force wives extensively on the impropriety of Touching The Queen; it simply ISN’T DONE, MY DEAR. My sister never misses a chance to drag out the fact that Madame Obama not only Touched The Queen but Hugged Her Royal Waist; to my sister, that is proof positive the Obamas are NOT Worthy of representing the United States. To my mind, Madame Obama not only hugged the queen, she didn’t kiss the queen’s ass. The fact that George Bush rubbed the shoulders of a Head of State means nothing; after all, The Chancellor of Germany is NOT THE QUEEN. And my sister was raised in Texas; I don’t understand her at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-obama-rapes-i-mean-shakes-hands-with-indonesian-minister/560133.md?page=1)