# Michelle Wie: Quit embarrassing yourself! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 16, 2006, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977 "2006-09-16T18:32:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/141 "2006-09-18T05:58:27Z")
[QUOTE=David Simmons] After her try at the men’s tournament Sorenstam reportedly said that the one thing she found out was just how good these guys are around the green. [/QUOTE] Yep. I watched every minute of coverage both Thurs and Fri of that tournament. Her short game sucked. No two ways about it, and she knew it, too. Maybe some of it was nerves. I really wish she’d give it another go, but the thing about Annika is she isn’t into stunts. I’m guessing that she feels like she learned what she needed to learn and isn’t interested in entering a tournament she knows she has zero chance of winnig. Good for her. ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/142 "2006-09-18T14:14:16Z")
Yeah, “hitting the ball far” does not equal good golfer. Look at all of the guys on ESPN4’s long ball driving contests sometimes- none are on the tour. If they were good overall players, they would be on the tour, not some gimmicky contest. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/143 "2006-09-18T14:48:55Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Yeah, “hitting the ball far” does not equal good golfer. Look at all of the guys on ESPN4’s long ball driving contests sometimes- none are on the tour. If they were good overall players, they would be on the tour, not some gimmicky contest. [/QUOTE] I don’t think that anyone is arguing that the best golfers are longest hitters. What has been argued is that she hits a lot of long irons into greens, and that she has trouble chopping it out of thick rough. She’s a junior in high school, for crying out loud. She is in way over her head, as her record on the men’s tour shows. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/144 "2006-09-18T17:08:14Z")
[QUOTE=Sam Stone] I disagree with the OP. [/QUOTE] I want to see Michelle Wie do as well as possible as soon as possible but I have to agree with you. She isn’t ready. The only reason she is doing this is because of the sponsors, if her objective was to accumulate the best career record that she could, she would do it another way but they are throwing a lot of money at her. What she really needed to do was develop until she could hit the LPGA the way Tiger did and dominate it from the very beginning. More people would watch the LPGA tournaments, maybe they could get more generous sponsors and better prize money. Right now I think all she can really do it take the money and try to develop through training while taking on tournaments that are more her speed. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/145 "2006-09-18T17:26:05Z")
[QUOTE=Elenfair] What she has the potential of doing is changing the face of the sport, bringing young girls and young women to golfing and so on… [/QUOTE] Golf is already pretty big with women in Korea. Then again there are like half a dozen good Korean players on the LPGA. If you want more women to play golf then work on the LPGA. Like tennis, women generally are never going to be able to compete with men in golf but if all the good female players decide to go to the PGA and come in at the back of the pack instead of trying to build and develop the LPGA, I can’t imagine that we will see the LPGA gain much ground. I assume you have been to a PGA event, have you ever been to an LPGA event? At the PGA events, you get bombarded with swag (a lot of it from pharmaceutical companies) as you enter the event and everyone is really serious and quiet when players are taking shots. At the LPGA events, it is an entirely different story. The crowd is rowdy, drunk and mostly female, some of the swag seems targetted to trophy wives not female professionals (at least it was at the two LPGA events I have attended in my life). The LPGA has a lot of room for development. I mean look at their sponsors compared to the PGA sponsors. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/146 "2006-09-18T17:30:40Z")
The best golfers are the long hitters. Woods is way up on distance. It is rare and difficult for a short hitter to compete. If he hits an 8 iron while the competition is hitting a 5 ,he will get closer to the pin, on an average ,over enough holes. Nobody on the tour is a bad putter.Some are better than others. I read that her putting is suspect. She misses too many short ones. You have to capitalize on oportunities. But, she is just a kid. Whether she can develop ,after getting beaten badly, remains to be seen. She has to keep altering her swing because she is getting so tall. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/147 "2006-09-18T17:53:12Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] As for here earnings on the LPGA tour, she is somewhat limited until she turns 18. I don’t know the details, but even though she’s now a pro and has her LPGA tour card, the rules limit the number of tournaments she can play until she’s 18. But there are still plenty of tournaments she can play, and she does need to finish High School, too. [/QUOTE] It’s my understanding that since she isn’t 18 she actually cannot be a member of the LPGA, and can only play in something like 5 LPGA events per year, and can only enter said events through a sponsors exemption. The one thing she has going for her over an amateur is she can collect prize money at LPGA events. But being under 18 limits her options pretty considerably in the LPGA at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/148 "2006-09-18T17:55:18Z")
[QUOTE=Wee Bairn] Yeah, “hitting the ball far” does not equal good golfer. Look at all of the guys on ESPN4’s long ball driving contests sometimes- none are on the tour. If they were good overall players, they would be on the tour, not some gimmicky contest. [/QUOTE] Long drives are such a huge advantage is getting good placement on the green. If my drive were 100 feet longer, I could probably improve my game by 10 strokes. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/149 "2006-09-18T17:57:55Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] The best golfers are the long hitters. Woods is way up on distance. It is rare and difficult for a short hitter to compete. [/QUOTE] I don’t know that this is true; here’s the current top 10 on the money list, with their driving distances: ```auto 1. Woods 306.5 (5th) 2. Furyk 281.9 (156th) 3. Mickelson 300.7 (17th) 4. Ogilvy 295.3 (54th) 5. Singh 295.1 (56th) 6. Immelman 294.9 (58th) 7. Scott 302.2 (14th) 8. Appleby 289.9 (92nd) 9. Toms 286.8 (118th) 10. Donald 284.7 (142nd) ``` This is pretty basic data, and there may be issues like club selection in play as well. Having said that, Michelle’s driving distance was quoted upthread as 264 this week, which is well below everyone on this list. So she’s hitting at least a couple extra clubs into these greens. And then these guys hit their irons further as well, so that makes things worse. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/150 "2006-09-18T18:08:13Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] But being under 18 limits her options pretty considerably in the LPGA at the moment. [/QUOTE] Yeah but, you know, she does have that Chemistry exam in third period to study for. Most people in America could retire today on the money she has already earned. Her options should include a plan to bring her along at a pace that will maximize her potential golf ability. What’s the rush? Is anyone seriously arguing that she needs to play two rounds a week, and lose badly, against far superior competition in order to progress? Again, I will ask, when has that ever worked for a golfer before? ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/151 "2006-09-18T19:46:53Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] It’s my understanding that since she isn’t 18 she actually cannot be a member of the LPGA, and can only play in something like 5 LPGA events per year, and can only enter said events through a sponsors exemption. The one thing she has going for her over an amateur is she can collect prize money at LPGA events. But being under 18 limits her options pretty considerably in the LPGA at the moment. [/QUOTE] That is my understanding as well. So since she isn’t allowed to play in more LPGA tourneys, I don’t really see the harm in having her play a few PGA events. Heck, talk to the sponsors of the John Deere and ask them if they were glad she showed up (for a round and 1/2). I don’t read the golf publications much, but my impression was that the general impression was that in time she would win her fair share of LPGA tournaments. I don’t see any reason to think she’s going to permanently damage her swing/game by missing a few PGA cuts. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/152 "2006-09-18T20:59:16Z")
Does anyone else have “Bush is good” for their Google add in this thread? With it being the lead word in the sentence I can’t tell if the intention is to read it as “Bush” or “bush”. The former is just wrong, and I think it would be improper to comment on the latter for about another year. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/153 "2006-09-18T21:15:47Z")
[QUOTE=borschevsky] I don’t know that this is true; here’s the current top 10 on the money list, with their driving distances: ```auto 1. Woods 306.5 (5th) 2. Furyk 281.9 (156th) 3. Mickelson 300.7 (17th) 4. Ogilvy 295.3 (54th) 5. Singh 295.1 (56th) 6. Immelman 294.9 (58th) 7. Scott 302.2 (14th) 8. Appleby 289.9 (92nd) 9. Toms 286.8 (118th) 10. Donald 284.7 (142nd) ``` This is pretty basic data, and there may be issues like club selection in play as well. Having said that, Michelle’s driving distance was quoted upthread as 264 this week, which is well below everyone on this list. So she’s hitting at least a couple extra clubs into these greens. And then these guys hit their irons further as well, so that makes things worse. [/QUOTE] From 282 to 305 and you define them as short. There are a couple big hitters that are just that . Thy do not win but are fun to watch. Furyk is a relatively short hitter but extremely accurate. Compensates for him on tough courses. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/154 "2006-09-18T22:20:57Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] The best golfers are the long hitters. Woods is way up on distance. It is rare and difficult for a short hitter to compete. [/QUOTE] As as has already been noted, that is simply not true. You’re comparing “long hitters” with “short hitters” and ignoring the number of really good players who are somewhere inbetween. Furyk is a perfect example. No one would call him a long hitter. DiMarco, too. It appears that MW was hitting shorter this week than typical for her. Maybe something changed, or maybe the course was wet, or something else, but she’s normally right up there with the medium hitters on the PGA like Furyk. But then, Furyk is a superb iron player. **Martin** : We already discussed this. She can play 6 LPGA events, but that doesn’t count the majors she can play like the Women’s US Open. And she’s still in high school, for crying out loud. She’d probably be better served playing a few Nationwide Tour events if she can’t get enough action on the LPGA. ---
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/155 "2006-09-18T23:43:25Z")
Women’s courses are shorter than men’s? Well, color me stupid. I just assumed that they all played on the same courses. It would be interesting to see if the gap between men and women would be narrowed if women started playing on the same courses as men. Until then, it seems that there’d be no hope for even the best woman golfer to give the men a run for the money. Practice makes perfect and all. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2006, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/156 "2006-09-18T23:54:46Z")
[QUOTE=PunditLisa] Women’s courses are shorter than men’s? Well, color me stupid. I just assumed that they all played on the same courses. It would be interesting to see if the gap between men and women would be narrowed if women started playing on the same courses as men. Until then, it seems that there’d be no hope for even the best woman golfer to give the men a run for the money. Practice makes perfect and all. [/QUOTE] Someday there wil be a woman who can compete with men. That woman may well be Michelle Wie. Time will tell. Watch Annika sometime. She is very strong for a woman, and a beautiful physical specimen. It is obvious that she trains hard or strength. But she is not good enough to compete against men. Courses get longer as equipment improves and players’ ability improves. Women’s course will ge longer, but so will the men’s. Oh yeah. They do play on the same courses, more or less. The ladies’ tees are closer to the hole, effectively shortening the course. If you and I had similar abilities, we could play a competitive round of golf together, with you hitting from the shorter tees. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/157 "2006-09-19T00:36:42Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Oh yeah. They do play on the same courses, more or less. The ladies’ tees are closer to the hole, effectively shortening the course. If you and I had similar abilities, we could play a competitive round of golf together, with you hitting from the shorter tees. [/QUOTE] It’s more than just shorter yardage when they play the same courses. Rough thickness, green speeds, hole placements on the green-- all those things are tougher on the courses that the PGA plays. (I’m sure you know that, but others probably don’t.) But most of the courses that “the men” play are tougher than than the typical LPGA courses. The “men’s courses” have more bunkers, deeper bunkers, trickier greens, etc. Most amateur men players who are used to shooting even par (~72) on their club courses would be lucky to break 80 on a PGA tour course; and 90 or 100 on a US Open course. It’s not like tennis where the a court is a court (excepting grass or clay). ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/158 "2006-09-19T00:51:54Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] As as has already been noted, that is simply not true. You’re comparing “long hitters” with “short hitters” and ignoring the number of really good players who are somewhere inbetween. Furyk is a perfect example. No one would call him a long hitter. DiMarco, too. It appears that MW was hitting shorter this week than typical for her. Maybe something changed, or maybe the course was wet, or something else, but she’s normally right up there with the medium hitters on the PGA like Furyk. But then, Furyk is a superb iron player. **Martin** : We already discussed this. She can play 6 LPGA events, but that doesn’t count the majors she can play like the Women’s US Open. And she’s still in high school, for crying out loud. She’d probably be better served playing a few Nationwide Tour events if she can’t get enough action on the LPGA. [/QUOTE] I want her to win on the womens tour. Then win on mens tour after her game is better. Hhe is a kid aafter all. If the course was wet it was wet for the men too.Furyk is a freak with a unique swing. He is not like other golfers.He is unusually straight hitter. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/159 "2006-09-19T01:07:17Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] As as has already been noted, that is simply not true. You’re comparing “long hitters” with “short hitters” and ignoring the number of really good players who are somewhere inbetween. Furyk is a perfect example. No one would call him a long hitter. DiMarco, too. It appears that MW was hitting shorter this week than typical for her. Maybe something changed, or maybe the course was wet, or something else, but she’s normally right up there with the medium hitters on the PGA like Furyk. But then, Furyk is a superb iron player. **Martin** : We already discussed this. She can play 6 LPGA events, but that doesn’t count the majors she can play like the Women’s US Open. And she’s still in high school, for crying out loud. She’d probably be better served playing a few Nationwide Tour events if she can’t get enough action on the LPGA. [/QUOTE] 8 of your 10 are approx. 290 and more average. That is not long .That is huge. No one could claim Phil and Tiger are not big hitters. They are extremely long. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977/160 "2006-09-19T01:36:44Z")
[QUOTE=col\_10022] Long drives are such a huge advantage is getting good placement on the green. If my drive were 100 feet longer, I could probably improve my game by 10 strokes. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but you still have to know how to get on the green. I can drive the ball 250 easily, 280 on a good day. Then, brother, it all falls apart. Even if I drive the fairway, I struggle mightily on my long and midrange irons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michelle-wie-quit-embarrassing-yourself/372977.md?page=9)