# Michigan AG announces charges against fake electors **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 19, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256 "2023-07-19T14:49:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/1 "2023-07-19T14:49:20Z")
Yesterday, the Michigan Attorney General announced that all 16 of the fake electors from that state have been charged with electoral fraud. Thought I would open a thread on it. The accused don’t look like mooks off the street: > [@](#): > > The group includes the head of the Republican National Committee’s chapter in Michigan, Kathy Berden, as well as the former co-chair of the Michigan Republican Party, Meshawn Maddock, and Shelby Township Clerk Stan Grot. Looks like at least one of the electors is still convinced the Biden electors were the “fake electors”: > [@](#): > > One of those charged, John Haggard, 82, of Charlevoix, [told The Detroit News](https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/michigan/2023/07/18/michigan-donald-trump-fake-electors-charged-felonies-attorney-general-dana-nessel/70427042007/) on Tuesday that he he didn’t believe he did anything wrong. > > “Did I do anything illegal? No,” Haggard said. Each one has been charged with 8 counts of different types of fraudulent activity. One source I saw (can’t remember where) said that they were each looking at 20 years max if convicted on all counts. Max sentence, of course, is not what most people get, but it does convey the seriousness of the charges. > **[Michigan charges 16 fake electors for Donald Trump with election law and...](https://apnews.com/article/fake-elector-michigan-republican-df7803fca3862be713d9d6d29fb77e81)** > > Michigan attorney general files felony charges against 16 who acted as fake electors for then-President Trump in 2020. Also saw in one article yesterday that this set of charges flew under the radar until they were laid, and caught some observers by surprise. Doesn’t sound like Michigan consulted with the fed DOJ (probably for fear that “loose-lips” Smith would leak something. 😀 ) And one high-ranking state GOP guy seems to be pointing fingers up higher, which is interesting: > [@](#): > > GOP state Sen. Ed McBroom, who chaired a GOP-led Senate panel to investigate Michigan’s 2020 presidential election that found no wrongdoing, said he previously spoke with one of the fake electors. It was clear, McBroom said, that the effort was organized by “people who put themselves in a position of authority and posing themselves as the ones who knew what they were doing.” > > “They were wrong,” McBroom told The Associated Press. “And other people followed them when they shouldn’t have.” ---
**Author:** ![Si\_Amigo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/si_amigo/32/2877_2.png) [@Si\_Amigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Si_Amigo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/2 "2023-07-19T14:57:02Z")
Makes me proud to be from Michigan. Our Govenor and AG have faced off agaisnt the MAGAgots and shown no fear. And the Michigan State Police (on camera taken by the fake electors!) refused to be bullied by the fake electors at the state house door and denied them entry for election certification proceedings. It was a class act by the MSP that actually showed the fake electors commiting their crimes on camera where they actually stated that they were the real electors and claiming that they had documents stating that. What’s also cool is that if they get convicted in state court there is no way to get a Presidential pardon. I don’t beleive that this has any affect on what Jack Smith has planned for them, and I hope other states follow up with similar charges. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/3 "2023-07-19T15:18:54Z")
Here here! Badass as they come. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/4 "2023-07-19T15:22:51Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > What’s also cool is that if they get convicted in state court there is no way to get a Presidential pardon. Good point. “Even if Donnie is re-elected, he won’t be able to help you. Are you sure you don’t want to talk a bit?” ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/5 "2023-07-19T15:23:39Z")
What are the odds that at least one of them flips/has flipped and implicates the higher-up/organizer(s) who told them this was A-okay? Up to, say, John Eastman? ---
**Author:** ![MulderMuffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldermuffin/32/2862_2.png) [@MulderMuffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MulderMuffin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/6 "2023-07-19T15:29:54Z")
I wonder if any of the fake electors in Michigan have been offered immunity deals or something similar in the federal case in exchange for their testimony. If so, would that deal affect the state case against them? Reporting seems to sudsy that the Michigan AG worked in private without involving our alerting the federal investigators involved in the Jack Smith probe, and also that Smith’s team subpoenaedthe fake electors in his investigation of the whole J6 conspiracy. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/7 "2023-07-19T15:30:12Z")
> [@Si\_Amigo](#): > > Makes me proud to be from Michigan. Our Govenor and AG have faced off agaisnt the MAGAgots and shown no fear. As a fellow Michigander, I’m of mixed feelings about all this. I’m proud of the fact that more sensible political minds seem to ultimately prevail in Michigan, but the Repub wing of our state definitely seem like a bunch of whack jobs. Case in point- electing Queen Repub whack job Kristina Karamo to be chair of the Michigan Repub party: > **[Kristina Karamo elected chair of Michigan Republican Party](https://www.freep.com/story/news/politics/elections/2023/02/18/michigan-republican-party-chair-convention-karamo-deperno-greenlee/69900553007/)** > > Once a financial juggernaut, the Michigan Republican Party's financial woes resulted in them charging delegates $50 to $75 to attend. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/8 "2023-07-19T15:31:13Z")
Also see … > [@7 Jan 2021 and beyond - the aftermath of the storming of the Capitol](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/7-jan-2021-and-beyond-the-aftermath-of-the-storming-of-the-capitol/930020/4402): > > Not sure where this lives, but … ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/9 "2023-07-19T15:35:57Z")
I missed that, thanks. I think there’s so much litigation going on that separate threads are better to follow them individually, but ultimately, up to the mods. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/10 "2023-07-19T16:05:54Z")
Moderating: This thread is fine. It’s a state prosecution that currently stands alone, and though the same crimes may be folded in to Jack Smith’s federal election interference case, it makes sense to keep the state prosecutions on their own track. Posting in either thread is fine, though. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/11 "2023-07-19T16:06:46Z")
I just have to say, I loved all the news yesterday, but this was my favorite. Love you Michiganders!! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/12 "2023-07-19T16:57:08Z")
I have to say that I am stunned that ANYONE thought this idea of fake electors would actually work. I know that Trump supporters are stupid, but _come on!_ ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/13 "2023-07-19T17:02:48Z")
It pains me to say … I’m not sure I agree. Without going too far afield from the OP, I do think there’s a “but for Mike Pence (and a small handful of others) …” argument to be made here: For any who have interest … > **[Timeline: False Alternate Slate of Electors Scheme, Donald Trump and His...](https://www.justsecurity.org/81939/timeline-false-alternate-slate-of-electors-scheme-donald-trump-and-his-close-associates/)** > > The most comprehensive factual record of Donald Trump and his close associates coordination of the false electors scheme. Remember, too, that while the Capitol was under siege, Trump was dialing for dollars, trying to get Republican Senators on the phone to convince them to help him overturn the election. It’s arguable how close we came, but I feel like it was way too damned awfully close for – at least – _my_ comfort. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/14 "2023-07-19T17:05:15Z")
About time, too. I’ve thought from the very start that they should be charged. Lets hope all the other states do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/15 "2023-07-19T17:08:02Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > I have to say that I am stunned that ANYONE thought this idea of fake electors would actually work. I know that Trump supporters are stupid, but _come on!_ It almost worked. It wasn’t that these forms would be accepted and used to elect Trump. The purpose was to keep the Senate from completing its task (just like the insurrection) by giving cover to “confusion” and “competing slates.” Pence throws up his hands and says “we don’t have a majority.” The House then re-elects Trump. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/16 "2023-07-19T17:14:56Z")
I think I heard AZ is going after their fake electors, too. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/17 "2023-07-19T17:28:46Z")
I live in Shelby Township. Kind of an inauspicious reason to see your tiny town in print ! This whole area is a right wing cesspool. Not like sensible right wing, but the worst, Trumpiest kind. State sponsored prayer at chamber meetings, that sort of thing. So I’m not surprised this happened in my neck of the woods. But I am very glad they are being held accountable. ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/18 "2023-07-19T17:34:22Z")
I knew somebody in Shelby Township! But it was back in the 90s, and I’ve lost touch. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/19 "2023-07-19T17:36:17Z")
It’s fine if you don’t talk to your neighbors! ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2023, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256/20 "2023-07-19T17:42:18Z")
Love it – but why did it take two and a half years? Unlike the DC mess, this doesn’t seem complicated at all, and the crime was right there on the video. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-ag-announces-charges-against-fake-electors/987256.md?page=2)