# Michigan may be lost by Harris due to Arab/Muslim voters anger **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [November 4, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645 "2024-11-04T02:15:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/103 "2024-11-04T17:32:15Z")
It’s before the election, so it’s still support. No matter how cynical or pragmatic the motivation, support is still support. And thinking she’ll probably win is _really_ optimistic. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/104 "2024-11-04T17:34:52Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And thinking she’ll probably win is _really_ optimistic. Not to derail the thread, but I’m struggling to see this viewpoint. Everything I can see points to an easy Harris win by a sizable margin. She’s leading in Iowa, and that wasn’t even a swing state. Well, we’ll see in 34 hours, I guess… (Hijack over, I won’t digress) ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/105 "2024-11-04T17:41:30Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not to derail the thread, but I’m struggling to see this viewpoint. Everything I can see points to an easy Harris win by a sizable margin. She’s leading in Iowa, and that wasn’t even a swing state. Relevant to this thread; given how disastrous a Trump win would be for Muslim Americans, taking the pessimistic view of Harris’ chances is just prudence. It’s not a choice that can be taken back if they guess wrong. When you’re halfway over the edge of a cliff, stepping back is smarter than seeing _just_ how close you can edge over the brink before falling. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/106 "2024-11-04T17:44:29Z")
I keep being amazed by these discussions. If your one issue in the election is anger over what is happening in Gaza we know that Harris will be better than Trump. Period. Full stop. That does not mean Harris will be great or come close to what people supporting Gaza want but she’ll be light years better than Trump. Not voting for Harris (the undecided movement among Muslims) or voting for Trump to make Gaza “better” is ridiculous. Trump has said so. If Muslims “punish” the democrats it won’t change a thing, never will and make what is happening in Gaza even worse. This is cutting off your nose to spite your face for American Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/107 "2024-11-04T17:49:20Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I keep being amazed by these discussions. > > If your one issue in the election is anger over what is happening in Gaza we know that Harris will be better than Trump. Period. Full stop. > > That does not mean Harris will be great or come close to what people supporting Gaza want but she’ll be light years better than Trump. It’s what happens with one-issue-voters. They end up voting against their own welfare since issues are _not_ in fact handed in some disconnected perfect vacuum. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/108 "2024-11-04T17:53:21Z")
The Dem coalition has included significant numbers of both Muslim and Jewish voters. And that was comfortable, until the war started. Now it’s like playing a chess game where two pieces are being threatened at once. You gotta pick which one is least valuable, either in terms of power or the strategy of the particular game. Playing to the Arab/Muslim vote would cost Jewish votes and not just in Michigan. The only other state I can think of where Muslim votes might provide a margin of victory or defeat would be Minnesota and I think Harris nailed that down with the Walz pick. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/109 "2024-11-04T17:55:52Z")
Again, it’s easy for us to tell Arab voters that they should make peace and be OK with the deaths of 40,000 Gazan civilians. Many of us would react differently if it were one of us. If Biden/Harris said we should resume racial segregation, I can’t imagine anyone telling black voters that they should be OK with it just because Trump would be worse. If Biden/Harris said women’s suffrage should be taken away, I don’t think anyone would tell women to be OK with it because Trump would be worse. You can’t tell people to choose between eating a small feces sandwich or a large feces sandwich, as another Doper put it. Sooner or later, they’ll demand a sandwich that’s not feces. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/110 "2024-11-04T17:58:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Again, it’s easy for us to tell Arab voters that they should make peace and be OK with the deaths of 40,000 Gazan civilians. Many of us would react differently if it were one of us. But nobody is saying that. They are saying “vote for the side that is much less likely to round you up and have you executed”. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/111 "2024-11-04T17:58:33Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > You can’t tell people to choose between eating a small feces sandwich or a large feces sandwich, as another Doper put it. Sooner or later, they’ll demand a sandwich that’s not feces. Feces sandwich is the only thing on the menu. American voters can choose the large or small one. There is no other choice on offer (third parties have no chance and we all know it). ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/112 "2024-11-04T17:58:55Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I keep being amazed by these discussions. > > If your one issue in the election is anger over what is happening in Gaza we know that Harris will be better than Trump. Period. Full stop. > > That does not mean Harris will be great or come close to what people supporting Gaza want but she’ll be light years better than Trump. > > Not voting for Harris (the undecided movement among Muslims) or voting for Trump to make Gaza “better” is ridiculous. Trump has said so. If Muslims “punish” the democrats it won’t change a thing, never will and make what is happening in Gaza even worse. > > This is cutting off your nose to spite your face for American Muslims. As I said earlier, it goes both ways. Arabs may be harming their own cause by voting against Harris, but the Democratic Party is also playing an extremely dangerous game by ignoring the genocide in Gaza. It’s not just Arabs who will suffer harm if Trump wins; people of all walks of society will suffer harm. The same mainstream Democrats who sneer at Arabs won’t be laughing so loudly when or if Trump takes power as a result. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/113 "2024-11-04T18:00:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Arabs may be harming their own cause by voting against Harris, but the Democratic Party is also playing an extremely dangerous game by ignoring the genocide in Gaza. The Democratic party acting as if there is a genocide in Gaza would be far more disastrous for them, electorally. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/114 "2024-11-04T18:00:45Z")
I keep hoping the political parties will “learn” something from their voters. They do not. Money rules. Not the will of the voters in American politics. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/115 "2024-11-04T18:02:17Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > As I said earlier, it goes both ways. Arabs may be harming their own cause by voting against Harris, but the Democratic Party is also playing an extremely dangerous game by ignoring the genocide in Gaza. They play a “dangerous game” either way, given how widespread support for Israel and hatred of Muslims is. No matter what they do they’ll make millions of people angry. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/116 "2024-11-04T18:05:41Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Again, it’s easy for us to tell Arab voters that they should make peace and be OK with the deaths of 40,000 Gazan civilians. Many of us would react differently if it were one of us. Who the hell is saying this? Look, I get there are _agents-provacateurs_ who have a vested interest in getting on TikTok and telling everyone that Harris is telling Palestinians to eat shit, it’s making the rounds on social media. They’re exploiting the fact that Harris currently by law _cannot_ effect a policy change here, since VP are prohibited by statue from making their own foreign policy. But we don’t have to repeat that kind of claptrap here. That’s a specific choice and it boggles the mind that people who should know better continue to do it. I always have my empathy questioned for pointing this out, but I don’t think empathy requires anyone to reinforce the false framing intended to weaponize people’s own rage against their best interests. Yes, Palestinians should be angry. No, they shouldn’t be angry at Harris compared to Trump, the guy who moved the Israeli capital to Jerusalem, who promises state violence against Muslims if he gets elected. It’s not unempathetic to point out that people are pointing their anger at the wrong people. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/117 "2024-11-04T18:08:01Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Currently the state is considered even, 47% to 47%. In that case this could clearly cost Harris the state, and the election. But I assume that this percentage includes pro Palestinian voters who say they aren’t going to vote for Harris because of this issue. Since the goal is to be vocally symbolic rather than put Trump in office, I suspect that some of those people may say they are going to vote for Trump or stay out, but when in the ballot box behave more practically, or at least those outnumber those who say they are going to vote for Harris but actually vote for Trump or say home, so from that point of view the existence of such voters make it more likely Harris will win than suggested by the 50/50 polling. In any case, if you are talking about close margins, it is pointless to lay the election loss at the feet of any one voting group or decision. Yes if she loses close in Michigan by a few thousand votes you could say that its due to the Arab vote, but you could also say that it was due to the black male vote who don’t like strong black women, or you could say it was due to Biden’s garbage gaffe, or you could say it was due to Kamala’s annoying laugh. Following this reasoning one could conclude that Monica Lewinsky started the Iraq war. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/118 "2024-11-04T18:12:12Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If Biden/Harris said we should resume racial segregation, I can’t imagine anyone telling black voters that they should be OK with it just because Trump would be worse. If Biden/Harris said women’s suffrage should be taken away, I don’t think anyone would tell women to be OK with it because Trump would be worse. Umm, those things, and more, are exactly what Trump’s proxies are saying they ~~want~~ are going to do if Trump wins. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/119 "2024-11-04T18:13:55Z")
Yeah. She can’t make policy, so that’s out. As for rhetoric she can support one side or the other which will at the very least anger their opponents, and likely the side she supports as well if she isn’t fervent _enough_ for their tastes. Or she can talk about compromise and peace plans which will anger both sides both for not supporting them and because it’s basically a dead letter at this point. Bottom line, there’s no actual path she can take that _doesn’t_ result in lots of angry people. If she had come out in favor of the Palestinians we’d instead be having a conversation much like the one, just about angry Israel supporters instead of (or in addition to) angry Arab/Muslims. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/120 "2024-11-04T18:14:44Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > If Biden/Harris said we should resume racial segregation, I can’t imagine anyone telling black voters that they should be OK with it just because Trump would be worse. If Trump was saying we should bring back lynchings then you bet your ass we would be saying that. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/121 "2024-11-04T18:16:44Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > If she had come out in favor of the Palestinians we’d instead be having a conversation much like the one, just about angry Israel supporters instead of (or in addition to) angry Arab/Muslims. The position Harris is taking right now has Trumpist’s calling her a Hamas supporter and an anti-Semite. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/122 "2024-11-04T18:19:08Z")
> [@Hawkeyeop](#): > > Is there polling showing that drop? I think even 30% is grossly overshooting the likely drop. Arabs aren’t a monolith. They aren’t going to all have the same view on foreign policy (or even all care about it). My guess is Harris maybe loses 10% relative to Biden, which again would only be the difference in a really close election. [This poll from the Council on American-Islamic Relations](https://www.cair.com/press_releases/breaking-cairs-final-election-poll-shows-stein-and-harris-still-tied-among-muslim-voters-trump-trailing/) says Muslim voters are evenly split between Stein (42%) and Harris (41%) with DJT just under 10%. 5.4% say they are not voting. The poll was conducted Oct. 30-31 and is nationwide, not just limited to MI. I have no idea how accurate this poll would be rated but it is definitely unsettling. [This poll from Arab News/YouGov](https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2024-10-22/new-poll-showing-trump-ahead-of-harris-with-arab-americans-spells-trouble-in-key-states-like-michigan) is saying 45% for DJT with 43% for Harris. I’m not sure how to take this discrepency other than to wonder if respondents are screwing with the pollsters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645.md?page=7)