# Michigan may be lost by Harris due to Arab/Muslim voters anger **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [November 4, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645 "2024-11-04T02:15:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/123 "2024-11-04T18:21:24Z")
Trump is pretty much the Platonic Ideal of awfulness. From a self interest and moral point of view supporting Harris is the right choice for nearly everyone; not because she’s especially good, but because Trump is such a parody of bad. This is a time for damage control over all. > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > The position Harris is taking right now has Trumpist’s calling her a Hamas supporter and an anti-Semite. Trumpists are like that. There’s no point in trying to pander to crazy people who won’t listen to you. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/124 "2024-11-04T18:22:22Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > If your one issue in the election is anger over what is happening in Gaza we know that Harris will be better than Trump. Period. Full stop. Again, I’m telling you that a lot of Palestinians do not see it that way. Many see it as both sides being equally bad for Palestinians. Many see it as either vote is a vote for genocide and they simply can’t bring themselves to pull the lever for Harris… ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/125 "2024-11-04T18:24:02Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Again, I’m telling you that a lot of Palestinians do not see it that way. Many see it as both sides being equally bad for Palestinians. Many see it as either vote is a vote for genocide and they simply can’t bring themselves to pull the lever for Harris… That may be how they see it. They are wrong. Harris won’t be great for them but Trump will be very much worse. He’s talked about this. We don’t have to guess. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/126 "2024-11-04T18:24:34Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Again, I’m telling you that a lot of Palestinians do not see it that way. Many see it as both sides being equally bad for Palestinians. And they’re wrong, voting for Trump is voting for greater force to be used against the Palestinians, as well as a strong likelihood of those voters being deported, imprisoned or killed. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/127 "2024-11-04T18:27:19Z")
I don’t disagree with what you say here but it doesn’t matter because large numbers of Arab Americans disagree. If they mean what they say there are large numbers of them who are not willing to continue voting for the lesser of two evils. The fact you or I disagree and think this is wrongheaded doesn’t enter into the equation. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/128 "2024-11-04T18:30:35Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > I don’t disagree with what you say here but it doesn’t matter because large number of Arab Americans disagree. If they mean what they say there are large numbers of them who are not willing to continue voting for the lesser of two evils. Cool. There are much, much larger numbers of Americans who think that a vote for Harris is a vote for open borders and Haitians eating our cats and dogs. Those people are also wrong, and also likely to have a much larger impact on the election, one way or the other. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/129 "2024-11-04T18:33:58Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That may be how they see it. > > They are wrong. Don’t you see how incredibly arrogant that world view is? They are not wrong, they are experiencing a different reality than you. The Palestinians are being slaughtered whole sale right now, and Harris is the VP. In the West Bank, it’s open season on Palestinians and Harris is the VP. For a lot of Palestians, it can’t be worse for them under Trump because they’ve already been killed under Biden. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/130 "2024-11-04T18:35:01Z")
Totally correct. The problem is there are 10’s of thousands of Arab/Muslim voters in Michigan. While Biden won the state by 155,000 votes in 2016 Clinton lost the state by 10,000 votes. The polls show the state as being even. If that is accurate it likely means it won’t take many voters who went to Biden to sit it out, vote for Stein, or, god forbid, vote for Trump. This could be why Harris loses the state and thus the election. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/131 "2024-11-04T18:37:47Z")
1. Whatever brakes exist on Israel is from the US. Trump would release all the brakes. 2. The VP has NO control over what is happening as a matter of policy. Maybe the VP can get a sit-down with the president and have a chat and hope they can change the president’s mind but that’s about the best a VP can hope for. Except for Cheney I doubt any had any effect on policy. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/132 "2024-11-04T18:38:00Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Don’t you see how incredibly arrogant that world view is? They are not wrong, they are experiencing a different reality than you. Do you apply the same logic to antivaxxers who thought Fauci was trying to sterilize or mind control us with his shot? People who scream about thousands of convicted murderer immigrants crossing the border? They’re not wrong, just living in a different reality than you? It’s INCREDIBLY ARROGANT of you to tell them that the vaccine is safe and effective or that there aren’t hundreds of thousands of Columbians being released from prison into America? > [@madmonk28](#): > > The Palestinians are being slaughtered whole sale right now, and Harris is the VP. In the West Bank, it’s open season on Palestinians and Harris is the VP. Immigrants are streaming over the border, and Harris is VP. Children are being molested in the basements of pizza parlours, and Harris is VP. Don’t hash my reality’s vibe, maaaaan. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/133 "2024-11-04T18:49:28Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Don’t you see how incredibly arrogant that world view is? They are not wrong, they are experiencing a different reality than you. I guess the middle ground between my reality and Q-Anon’s is that only half as many children are tortured for their adenochrome as they think. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/134 "2024-11-04T18:53:10Z")
Q-Anon BS, lies about open borders and other non-reality based nonsense are not the same as fact based information about the attitudes of Arab Americans in MI or the rest of the country. These are people who are experiencing what is happening in Gaza and Lebanon differently than the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/135 "2024-11-04T18:54:04Z")
Someone said upthread that we won’t be able to determine which votes had what effect. I would disagree in that if you get a heavy Stein vote in Dearborn, yeah, you can determine. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/136 "2024-11-04T18:55:24Z")
For many Palestinians, they see the US as allies with Israel in what they see as a genocide. They see this administration as complicit. This one. The Biden/Harris administration. To dismiss them as just being wrong is to completely ignore what they are experiencing now. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/137 "2024-11-04T18:58:16Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > I guess the middle ground between my reality and Q-Anon’s is that only half as many children are tortured for their adenochrome as they think. The truth is always somewhere in the middle. I literally have no idea what this is supposed to mean. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/138 "2024-11-04T19:00:43Z")
I think it is a suggestion that concerns about how Arab Americans may vote are just as imaginary as Q-Anon conspiracy theories. Of course I may have missed something. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/139 "2024-11-04T19:03:54Z")
I didn’t say if they would, or would not vote. I was trying to bring a perspective of how many Palestinians view America to the discussion and to point out it is not based in a belief that America is inherently a force of good, regardless of whether the government is headed by a Republican, or a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/140 "2024-11-04T19:05:10Z")
I get that and basically agree with you. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/141 "2024-11-04T19:05:42Z")
Thanks, the Qanon talk threw me. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/142 "2024-11-04T19:08:55Z")
That was brought up by Ludovic. I was pointing out how it isn’t the same as what you were pointing out. Sorry if it wasn’t clear. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645.md?page=8)