# Michigan may be lost by Harris due to Arab/Muslim voters anger **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump, kamala-harris\ **Created:** [November 4, 2024, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645 "2024-11-04T02:15:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/143 "2024-11-04T19:13:40Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > For a lot of Palestians, it can’t be worse for them under Trump because they’ve already been killed under Biden. One giant difference is that Trump plans on deporting literally millions of immigrants who are in the US, and if they’re swept up in that disaster, it will definitely be worse for them under Trump. I get that they are worried about Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank, but Trump is promising to be worse for Palestinians here in the US. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/144 "2024-11-04T19:14:17Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > For many Palestinians, they see the US as allies with Israel in what they see as a genocide. They see this administration as complicit. This one. The Biden/Harris administration. For many Americans, they see Democrats as pedophiles who torture children for hormones they use for eternal youth. They see the administration as complicit. This one. The Biden/Harris administration. To dismiss them as just being wrong is to completely ignore what they are experiencing now. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/145 "2024-11-04T19:18:56Z")
Here is one from from 4 years ago that had Biden up 59 to 35. I’m a bit skeptical but lets say based on your number it ends up something like 50/50 Trump vs Harris. 200kish eligible voters so lets say 150k vote. Harris would lose roughly 35,000 votes from this issue. Can 35k sway Michigan. Sure it is possible, but not likely. The Clinton election results in Michigan it was one of the closest in history. Even in the scenario where it does tip Michigan, it most scenarios it won’t affect the overall outcome of the race. > **[The Arab American Vote 2020](https://www.aaiusa.org/library/the-arab-american-vote-2020)** > > The Arab American Vote 2020 Poll ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/146 "2024-11-04T19:24:36Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Don’t you see how incredibly arrogant that world view is? They are not wrong, they are experiencing a different reality than you. No, they aren’t; there is only one reality. And them pretending that reality is something other than it is won’t keep them from being rounded up and killed by fascists who don’t care about _their_ fantasy. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/147 "2024-11-04T19:25:51Z")
> [@Steven\_Maven](#): > > They are cutting off their own nose to spite their face. I’ve used that metaphor too, but now it reminds me most of protestors who set themselves on fire to show how serious they are. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/148 "2024-11-04T19:31:26Z")
I would be delighted if this is what happens this year but with the state still polling as even I am concerned it will be a very close race in MI like in 2016. Of course if the polling is seriously off then it could be Harris will win with a margin like Biden. We will know soon enough. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/149 "2024-11-04T19:43:45Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > [This poll from Arab News/YouGov](https://www.usnews.com/news/elections/articles/2024-10-22/new-poll-showing-trump-ahead-of-harris-with-arab-americans-spells-trouble-in-key-states-like-michigan) is saying 45% for DJT with 43% for Harris. That one is especially weird as respondents who had voted in 2020 report having voted for Trump by nearly two to one. So compared to that an improvement! Of course that wasn’t what exit polls showed. Hard to trust partisan polls that are wanting to make a particular point to impact policy. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/150 "2024-11-04T20:09:13Z")
It would be easier for a rich man to enter Heaven than for a Kamala to thread the eye of this needle. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/151 "2024-11-04T20:10:19Z")
Moderating: > [@Babale](#): > > For many Americans, they see Democrats as pedophiles who torture children for hormones they use for eternal youth. They see the administration as complicit. This one. The Biden/Harris administration. > > To dismiss them as just being wrong is to completely ignore what they are experiencing now. You’ve made your point across many posts and threads that you feel it is wrong to characterize what Israel is doing as genocide. It can be construed as a thread shit. I’m not construing it that way, but this is not the focus of this thread or the appropriate place in which to make this argument. Time to drop it in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/152 "2024-11-04T20:13:42Z")
Yeah; in all honesty I can’t imagine anything she (or anyone else) could do or say on this issue that _wouldn’t_ make lots of people angry. Even ignoring the people who will be angry at her just for partisan reasons. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/153 "2024-11-04T20:16:27Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > This could be why Harris loses the state and thus the election. You keep harping on this. Yes, it _could_ be. But a) if MI goes trump and trump wins the EC, it still can never be proven that the Arab / Muslim vote in MI did anything to make that true that wasn’t overwhelmed by the other MI voters or non-MI voters, and b) nothing can be done about it here on Monday afternoon. It sounds like you’ve seized on this topic as the anchor for your generalized anxiety over tomorrow’s results. IMO … The arab / muslim disaffection was baked in from the day the war started. Actually from far before that; maybe 50 years ago. Disaffected people are going to vote … disaffectedly. News at 11. Not. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/154 "2024-11-04T20:32:27Z")
At the very least looking at the vote share Stein gets in Dearborn as opposed to the rest of the state should provide a clue about what Arab voters do. And yes, this is a big part of why I’m anxious about this election. In 2020 Biden had 70% of the Arab vote in MI. Whatever disaffection ends up influencing the vote this year will likely be because of current events, not events from 50 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/155 "2024-11-04T20:43:29Z")
Bottom line, no matter how likely or improbable your worry is, is that was NO WAY Harris could have played this differently without risking greater election harms, and undermining her current role as VP to support and help execute the president’s policies. Maybe move on to worrying if Black male voters moving away from Harris will cost her the election in several states, or Hispanic voters in Nevada, let alone in Arizona should get blamed if there is a loss. The Biden administration had policies. Agree with choices or damn them they are what they were and she is connected to them with election results impacts. Of all the groups that may have moved away in specific swing states I’d place Arab voters in MI as among the least likely to turn out to be the key if only group to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/156 "2024-11-04T20:54:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Bottom line, no matter how likely or improbable your worry is, is that was NO WAY Harris could have played this differently without risking greater election harms, and undermining her current role as VP to support and help execute the president’s policies. Yes, this. Forget all the arguments over what the _moral_ choice is, they honestly aren’t relevant to the thread subject. From an _electoral_ point of view there just was no path that didn’t risk angering as many or more voters. All roads lead to anger, here. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/157 "2024-11-04T21:18:32Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > That was brought up by Ludovic. I was pointing out how it isn’t the same as what you were pointing out. > > Sorry if it wasn’t clear. No you’re fine, it got weird from some of the other posters. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/158 "2024-11-04T22:42:27Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Don’t you see how incredibly arrogant that world view is? They are not wrong, they are experiencing a different reality than you. You can experience a different reality AND be wrong at the same time. I get what folks are saying about how and why Palestinians/Arabs/Muslims are so very unhappy with their “choices” in this election. I also support the right of American citizens of any stripe to vote as they see fit, whether I agree with their choices or not. That won’t stop me from expressing my own opinion of the situation. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/159 "2024-11-04T22:46:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > You can experience a different reality AND be wrong at the same time. True, but when it comes to white America telling the Arab world that they’re wrong, maybe, just maybe one of these days we could acknowledge that they have a point? They’re always told to wait and we’ll get around to caring, that we hear them and will take their concerns to heart and we never do. Never. And when they get so despondent that they give up, we sanctimoniously tell them they’re wrong. Lather rinse repeat. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/160 "2024-11-04T22:59:11Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > True, but when it comes to white America telling the Arab world that they’re wrong, maybe, just maybe one of these days we could acknowledge that they have a point? What does that have to do with anything? The _practical_ issue for them isn’t if they are right or wrong, it’s what is likely to happen to them if Trump wins. Having a point won’t save them. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/161 "2024-11-04T23:10:46Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Having a point won’t save them. Moreover, what the fuck is this point that ‘’‘we’‘’ are not acknowledging exactly? ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2024, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645/162 "2024-11-04T23:24:49Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > True, but when it comes to white America telling the Arab world that they’re wrong, maybe, just maybe one of these days we could acknowledge that they have a point? You’ve not really articulated what that point might be. If it’s that Trump and Harris are just two sides of the same coin, and that, when it comes to the rights of Palestinians in Gaza (not to mention Palestinians in Michigan), there’s no meaningful amount of daylight between them then, well, that’s a terribly stupid point that can only be held by terribly stupid people who’ve spent the last eight years not paying attention. Trump _will_ be catastrophically worse, and we know this because he’s told us in no uncertain terms what he’s going to do. He’s told us he’ll throw his support behind Netanyahu. He’s told us he plans to enact mass deportations. He routinely demonises Palestinians as inherently evil. Harris may not be great, from their point of view, but the question of who would be _worse_ for Palestinians is, objectively, an incredibly easy one that only the most wilfully stupid people could possibly get wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-may-be-lost-by-harris-due-to-arab-muslim-voters-anger/1009645.md?page=9)