# Michigan Republicans create "financial martial law"; appointees to replace elected local officials **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 11, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325 "2011-03-11T19:38:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Polerius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d78d45/32.png) [@Polerius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polerius)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/1 "2011-03-11T19:38:33Z")
See [here](http://www.boingboing.net/2011/03/11/michigan-republicans.html) and [here](http://www.dailytribune.com/articles/2011/03/10/news/doc4d78d0d4d764d009636769.txt?viewmode=fullstory) Excerpt: > [@](#): > > Republican Michigan governor Rick Snyder, along with the state’s Republican house and senate, have passed a controversial bill that allows the governor to dissolve the elected governments of Michigan’s towns and cities, replacing them with unaccountable “emergency financial managers” who can eliminate services, merge or eliminate school boards, and lay off or renegotiate unionized public employees without recourse. I always knew Republican lip service supporting “local government” over centralized government was just hypocritical bullshit Topics for discussion: [ul] [li]Can this bill pass a court challenge (e.g. due to power of an unelected person to fire elected officials)?[/li][li]Do you support this bill?[/li][li]How do you think this will play out? Will the people just roll over and take it?[/li][/ul] ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/2 "2011-03-11T19:52:53Z")
I have no idea, but I’ve been watching this myself. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/3 "2011-03-11T19:57:37Z")
Our wealthy overlords can be trusted to run the towns and cities like the magnanimous and generous selfless people they are. They could install the 99 rules of occupation the Bremer did in Iraq.l Then all would be well. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/4 "2011-03-11T20:02:43Z")
One hopes they’ll be greeted as liberators, also in the Iraqi mode. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f8ce5/32.png) [@The\_Peyote\_Coyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Peyote_Coyote)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/5 "2011-03-11T20:10:44Z")
Polerius: 1.) I have no idea. 2.) I myself, as a resident of southern Indiana, think that the states are ultimately going have to eliminate inefficent governmental units. I saw a recent Yahoo story that said about one-quarter of this country’s counties are dying. In Indiana, you can see several of those counties like Sullivan. No business or industry, little chance of getting any, the young people moving out in droves, and the old people howling about property taxes. Yet Sullivan County is supporting three schools, one of them one of the smallest in the state, largely because of basketball. I live in Greene County, which has a population of about 32,000 with little prospect of growth and hardly any industry, and yet we have five schools, once again so small towns can have their goddamn basketball. I think the Indiana General Assembly should force consolidation of these small podunk schools (I wouldn’t send my dog to a lot of the rural schools in this state) and force consolidation of those dying counties. I think other states are going to have to do the same thing. However, I would try to to this in the spirit of improving things in the state. I suspect the Michigan Republicans are going to go after the Detroit schools and city government. Something needs to be done about Detroit, of course, but if I was a Detroit teacher, I would be getting ready to hit the streets. 3.) If the Republicans confine their actions to Detroit, they may get away with it because if Michigan is like the rest of the Old Midwest, there is a bit of racism and let’s face it, Detroit needs major help. I don’t know what could be done, but something has to be done. As for the rest of the state, the Republicans may face a battle royale. ---
**Author:** ![Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e480ec/32.png) [@Least\_Original\_User\_Name\_Ever](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Least_Original_User_Name_Ever)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/6 "2011-03-11T20:16:59Z")
If it passes, there’s a provision in the legislation to make it so it can’t be overturned by voter referendum, as well. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/7 "2011-03-11T20:18:25Z")
That sounds utterly ridiculous to me. The Governor would be allowed to, essentially, nullify the results of any election he didn’t like as long as he slaps a, “I had to to do it,” tag on it. Yeah, I’m sure there would be no abuse or controversy whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/8 "2011-03-11T20:20:53Z")
> [@Polerius](#): > > See [here](http://www.boingboing.net/2011/03/11/michigan-republicans.html) and [here](http://www.dailytribune.com/articles/2011/03/10/news/doc4d78d0d4d764d009636769.txt?viewmode=fullstory) > > Excerpt: > I always knew Republican lip service supporting “local government” over centralized government was just hypocritical bullshit > > Topics for discussion: > [ul] > [li]Can this bill pass a court challenge (e.g. due to power of an unelected person to fire elected officials)?[/li][li]Do you support this bill?[/li][li]How do you think this will play out? Will the people just roll over and take it?[/li][/ul] The legal challenges are probably already being drafted. If it holds up on a state level, it MUST be challenged in the Supreme Court. This is the beginning of dictatorship, and if Snyder, etc. refuse to budge, they should be dragged out of the statehouse by force, by the military, if necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/9 "2011-03-11T20:37:52Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > This is the beginning of dictatorship, and if Snyder, etc. refuse to budge, they should be dragged out of the statehouse by force, by the military, if necessary. You object to dictatorship, yet suggest military enforcement? The irony, it burns. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/10 "2011-03-11T20:44:02Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You object to dictatorship, yet suggest military enforcement? The irony, it burns. I think Michigan’s state troopers would suffice to escort the power mad fool from the state house. Better them than a mob with pitchforks. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/11 "2011-03-11T20:47:34Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > You object to dictatorship, yet suggest military enforcement? The irony, it burns. Only if the legislation were found unconstitutional and if it were made necessary by refusal to comply. So, let me get this straight. Are you actually such an ideologue that you support systematically undermining the basic American electoral process? ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/12 "2011-03-11T20:54:09Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > So, let me get this straight. Are you actually such an ideologue that you support systematically undermining the basic American electoral process? Did I say anything remotely close to that? Pretty sure I didn’t. Just commented on your rather amusing word choice. I have no intention of defending this action. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/13 "2011-03-11T20:58:36Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Did I say anything remotely close to that? Pretty sure I didn’t. Just commented on your rather amusing word choice. I have no intention of defending this action. Then I’m happy you’re amused. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/14 "2011-03-11T21:01:50Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > The legal challenges are probably already being drafted. If it holds up on a state level, it MUST be challenged in the Supreme Court. This is the beginning of dictatorship, and if Snyder, etc. refuse to budge, they should be dragged out of the statehouse by force, by the military, if necessary. So you are suggesting a Second Amendment solution? 😃 Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/15 "2011-03-11T21:04:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So you are suggesting a Second Amendment solution? 😃 > > Regards, > Shodan I believe the suggestion involved Real Soldiers. Not a “well ordered militia.” ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/16 "2011-03-11T21:08:14Z")
Can one of our legal eagles shed a little light on this? How is this even constitutional? If I understand this correctly, it would allow a privately appointed person to muck about with everything we vote on and be unaccountable to the people entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/17 "2011-03-11T21:30:12Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > Can one of our legal eagles shed a little light on this? How is this even constitutional? If I understand this correctly, it would allow a privately appointed person to muck about with everything we vote on and be unaccountable to the people entirely. The article doesn’t make it sound like this is something totally now - > [@](#): > > Snyder, a Republican, called for a substantially revised emergency manager process in January, warning that the current law doesn’t allow the state to act pro-actively, providing early intervention long before a city or school district faces financial collapse. And it appears the EMF is answerable to the Legislature - > [@](#): > > In addition, an EMF can only be put in place if several preliminary steps to shore up a community’s finances fail. > > An EMF would be appointed by the governor – in conjunction with the state school superintendent in the case of failing school districts. The Legislature could remove an EMF that was viewed as incompetent or overbearing. So it is more like a judge than a governor. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/18 "2011-03-11T21:30:56Z")
For some values of “legal eagle” I suppose I qualify…and the only argument I can think of to justify this as constitutional would be some sort of “emergency powers” clause, possibly in the State Constitution. And I think even that is a stretch. I think the power to do a lesser form of that exists in some places. In my state, it is possible for the State to take over a local school district for continued non-performance–but that’s several orders of magnitude below a town government… ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/19 "2011-03-11T21:42:21Z")
Also, I noticed that the state legislature defeated an amendment that would have limited the EMF’s salary to that of the governor - so basically (I guess?) the governor can choose to pay the EMF whatever he sees fit. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325/20 "2011-03-11T21:45:31Z")
In terms of the legality, I have no idea. In general principal, however, having a hatchetman come in once every hundred years to clean things up is probably a good thing, overall. But right now, this is stupid. Cutting costs is the worst thing to do during a recession. All costs on an object are the sum total of all labor that was paid to create that object, or that were expected to be hired to make even more objects. That means that cutting costs means laying people off and lowering your hiring rate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-republicans-create-financial-martial-law-appointees-to-replace-elected-local-officials/574325.md?page=2)