# Michigan vs. Ohio state. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 11, 2006, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055 "2006-11-11T23:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/221 "2006-12-07T17:27:29Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] I can understand the bitterness of MU fans, seeing an undefeated season going down the tubes. But like **howye** said, MU is just getting a taste of the medicine they gave OSU throughout the 1990s. [/QUOTE] Who the heck is the MU you keep prattling on about? I thought Missouri played in the Big 12. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/222 "2006-12-07T17:40:16Z")
[QUOTE=SenorBeef] But if we’re playing what-ifs, take away self-inflicted turnovers that weren’t the result of anything Michigan did like those snap fumbles, and some BS penalties, and the game isn’t even close. The game wasn’t as close as the score indicates. Michigan really did not threaten to win at any point in the second half. [/QUOTE] Michigan scores 25 points in the second half, and you don’t think the game was close??? The thing that screwed Michigan was that dumb, dumb penalty. I thought Michigan was going to take control and win that game. After OSU scored on that drive, you’re right, it wasn’t really close. But up until that point, UM was knocking on OSU’s door. I’m not a fan of either team, just a general Big Ten supporter, but I felt that game was close coming into the 4th quarter. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/223 "2006-12-07T17:45:11Z")
I have yet to be convinced that the voters would not have moved Florida ahead of Michigan even if USC had won. Why are folks assuming this would not have happened? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/224 "2006-12-07T19:00:29Z")
[QUOTE=Gangster Octopus] I have yet to be convinced that the voters would not have moved Florida ahead of Michigan even if USC had won. Why are folks assuming this would not have happened? [/QUOTE] cause it wouldn’t have mattered. USC would have played Ohio State, as USC had already leapfrogged Michigan. The unexpected USC loss forced the question no one expected or wanted to answer. What do you do with this UM/UF problem. UF has the better resume (beat more teams to finish in the top 25, beat more bowl eligible teams, beaten teams had a better combined record) whereas UM had going for it the fact that it had been nos 2 and 3 for the past two weeks without playing a down and without having won a game in a month. UF comes off of a win against Arkansas and a conference championship, having beaten good LSU and Tennesee teams, having beaten a Georgia team that definitely turned itself around, having survived the guantlet of playing LSU, Auburn and UGA back to back to back and suffering only one loss. What do you do? Reward a team that scrambled to beat Ball State? Every voter flashed back to Aubunr’s snubbing and Oklahoma’s trouncing by USC and thought, eh, we know who wins UM/OSU, give UF a shot. Now UF has the unenviable position of carrying the SEC’s reputation into a game against a team that, at it’s best, beats any other college football team in the country in a walk. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/225 "2006-12-07T20:21:06Z")
“My guys were disappointed at first, but they eventually understood,” said Michigan coach Lloyd Carr. “We had our chance against Ohio State and we blew it, and I guess a rematch would be boring. But can you blame us for thinking we had a chance? Sure, Troy Smith is easily the best player ever, and that defense, well, quite frankly, I’d be afraid for our guys’ safety if we had to go up against that defense again, but our fans are rabidly single-minded and a lot of them have poll votes.” > **[The Onion | America's Finest News Source.](https://www.theonion.com/)** > > The Onion brings you all of the latest news, stories, photos, videos and more from America's finest news source. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/226 "2006-12-08T19:13:51Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] Michigan scores 25 points in the second half, and you don’t think the game was close??? The thing that screwed Michigan was that dumb, dumb penalty. I thought Michigan was going to take control and win that game. After OSU scored on that drive, you’re right, it wasn’t really close. But up until that point, UM was knocking on OSU’s door. [/QUOTE] Actually, I think what screwed Michigan was the 42 points, 300 yards passing, four sacks, and two 50+ yard touchdown runs Ohio State had. Take away those things, and yeah, it was pretty close. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 8, 2006, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/227 "2006-12-08T23:37:17Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] When the voters rank the teams not based on what they feel their worth is but on what matchup they’d rather see, then they’ve compromised the integrity of the poll. [/QUOTE] The polls have \*always \* been about determining who’s best. Only recently has the connection been made direct, but that hardly means there’s been some integrity lost. The voters weren’t, ISTM, going by what game they’d rather see, but by which 2 teams were most deserving of playing for the title. The majority vote was that Florida deserved a first chance more than Michigan deserved a second one. How is that wrong? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/228 "2006-12-09T00:25:33Z")
[QUOTE=Lizard] Actually, I think what screwed Michigan was the 42 points, 300 yards passing, four sacks, and two 50+ yard touchdown runs Ohio State had. Take away those things, and yeah, it was pretty close. [/QUOTE] You don’t have to get my point if you don’t feel like it. But watching the game in the 4th quarter, I couldn’t tell you who was going to win the game if I were a betting man, because Michigan seemed to have the momentum. I call that a close game. If you don’t, fine. Remember, I don’t have a horse in this race–I’m just telling you how I felt during the game, and it would satisfy my definition of close. ---
**Author:** ![Lizard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@Lizard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lizard)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2006, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/229 "2006-12-09T06:03:23Z")
[QUOTE=pulykamell] You don’t have to get my point if you don’t feel like it. But watching the game in the 4th quarter, I couldn’t tell you who was going to win the game if I were a betting man, because Michigan seemed to have the momentum. I call that a close game. If you don’t, fine. Remember, I don’t have a horse in this race–I’m just telling you how I felt during the game, and it would satisfy my definition of close. [/QUOTE] Read what I posted earlier. Michigan _had_ to mount such a comeback because they had been so thoroughly outplayed in the first half by Ohio State. Do you think if it were Michigan leading by two touchdowns they would’ve been playing that hard still, or any harder than OSU was? Would any team? I don’t want to carry on about this too much, because I really think game-planning and play-calling played a bigger role in that game than they normally do at the college level. And those are not things the players on the field have any control over. If it was just a mano a mano comparison, I would have to say that, yes, Michigan was at least even with Ohio State. But those other factors still affect the outcome, and determine what makes a _team_ better. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/230 "2006-12-10T03:45:11Z")
[QUOTE=John Carter of Mars] Oh _ **BULLSHIT!** _ Leak pump-faked once, pump-faked a second time and was in the process of tucking the ball to take a sack when the Auburn linebacker knocked the ball loose. Look at some replays. If the replay is a little fast for you, check out the front sports page of the next day’s _Tampa Tribune_. It features a remarkably timed still photo…The ball is in Leak’s hand, about belt high with the nose pointed toward the ground. The diving Auburn player’s extended hand is about six inches away from making contact and knocking the ball loose. Ever seen anyone throw a forward pass with their hand belt high and the nose of the ball pointed down? There was a reason it only took 30 seconds for the guys in the replay booth to confirm the call on the field, and that’s because it was an obvious fumble. **Ogre** , you’re the only person other than Lee Corso and some Gator fans that I’ve heard question that call. A newspaper, _Florida Today_, ran an on-line reader’s poll posing the question: “Good call or bad call?” Even in Central Florida where the readership is probably 90% Gator fans, the poll was 62% Good Call, 38% Bad Call. [/QUOTE] Would [this](http://imgsrv.gainesvillesun.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=GS&Dato=20061015&Kategori=GATORS&Lopenr=1015002&Ref=PH&Item=17&Title=1&MaxW=600&MaxH=500&Q=80&border=1&bcolor=003399&bgcolor=FFFFFF) be the picture you’re referring to? Sure looks like a pass to this Gator fan. Certainly not “belt-high” as you stated. The nose of the ball is pointed down, but I think that’s because the Auburn player just hit it. Not that it matters after we won the SEC and made it to the national title game, but still, it would have been nice to see the correct call in that situation. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/231 "2006-12-10T04:38:27Z")
[QUOTE=HowieReynolds] Would [this](http://imgsrv.gainesvillesun.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?NewTbl=1&Avis=GS&Dato=20061015&Kategori=GATORS&Lopenr=1015002&Ref=PH&Item=17&Title=1&MaxW=600&MaxH=500&Q=80&border=1&bcolor=003399&bgcolor=FFFFFF) be the picture you’re referring to? [/quote] No, the picture in the _Tribune_ was snapped a couple of nano-seconds later, when both Leak’s arm and the Auburn player’s arm were down about belt high. It was also from a very slightly different angle. I’d try to call it up and provide a link, but I’m sittin’ here on a 24 kbs dial-up modem. Estimated time to search old newspaper files, maybe an hour. Anyway, the next play would have been a field-goal attempt by Florida. Reach your own conclusion about how THAT would have turned out. 😉 Then there would be the problem of keeping Auburn out of their own kicker’s range. That would be John Vaughn, Groza award finalist and SEC special teams Player of the Year. (19/23 on field goals, 2-2 outside 50 yards.) All of which is to say that one play, which most people think was called correctly anyway, did not determine the outcome of that game. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8797f3/32.png) [@The\_Universe\_Lashes\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Universe_Lashes_Out)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/232 "2006-12-10T21:30:18Z")
Hey, we’ve made nearly 25% of our FG attempts this year! No, I don’t think any call in that game determined the outcome. I’ve seen two Gator losses directly attributable to bad call(s), and the Auburn game wasn’t anywhere near either of those. You guys beat us. I just don’t think that call was as cut-and-dried as you made it seemed. Leak’s arm is not “belt-high” and the ball would have been going in the general direction of Tate Casey had it not been hit by the Auburn player. Good luck in your bowl game, I hope you guys destroy Nebraska. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/233 "2006-12-11T01:10:01Z")
Fair enough, **Howie**. It was seeing several statements like this one from post #185 above, in several different places, that finally set my rockets off. _“Florida was one bad ref call from being undefeated this year”_. Good luck out in the desert. ---
**Author:** ![Pixiesnix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/898d66/32.png) [@Pixiesnix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pixiesnix)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/234 "2006-12-11T05:18:38Z")
WTF is the Capital One Bowl? Friggin’ Arkansas…the _one_ season I pay attention. ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/235 "2006-12-11T06:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=John Carter of Mars] Fair enough, **Howie**. It was seeing several statements like this one from post #185 above, in several different places, that finally set my rockets off. _“Florida was one bad ref call from being undefeated this year”_. Good luck out in the desert. [/QUOTE] Knew that one would get you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/236 "2006-12-11T14:17:27Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] Knew that one would get you. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Peace, Bro. Now, about that coaching job… :o D & R ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/237 "2006-12-11T20:24:38Z")
[QUOTE=John Carter of Mars] Peace, Bro. Now, about that coaching job… :o D & R [/QUOTE] I hear the Auburn AD took a plane to Tuscaloosa… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/2bfe46/32.png) [@John\_Carter\_of\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Carter_of_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/238 "2006-12-12T06:05:38Z")
[QUOTE=Ogre] I hear the Auburn AD took a plane to Tuscaloosa… 🙂 [/QUOTE] Y’all gonna hire Jay Jacobs to be your next coach? Well, he _did_ play for Pat Dye so I guess you could do worse. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 12:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/239 "2006-12-12T12:51:24Z")
Just want to chime in on how nice it is in this thread now that it’s become about the SEC and we don’t have those peskies Big Eleven folks posting in here anymore. ---
**Author:** ![Doctor\_Who](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Doctor\_Who](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doctor_Who)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2006, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055/240 "2006-12-12T13:26:44Z")
[QUOTE=ShibbOleth] Just want to chime in on how nice it is in this thread now that it’s become about the SEC and we don’t have those peskies Big Eleven folks posting in here anymore. [/QUOTE] Don’t you know about the ignore list? I know we’re not supposed to talk about it, but anytime somebody posts from the Big 11, they should instantly go on your ignore list. Same goes for the PACmen. Using my simple method, the entire thread has been enjoyable! 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-vs-ohio-state/380055.md?page=13)