# Michigan Womyn's Music Festival now openly admitting out trans women **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [August 19, 2006, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300 "2006-08-19T01:41:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/21 "2006-08-20T05:37:32Z")
It’s a cathatric experience. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/22 "2006-08-20T08:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest] Pardon my ignorance, but is an Out trans woman a man who was a woman living openly in their new sex choice? [/QUOTE] **Johanna** addressed this. When speaking of a trans person, the gender used ought to reflect their gender of identification; so a trans woman is a woman who was identified as male at birth and now identifies as female. Sexual orientation is described similarly, so that a trans woman who likes men is described as heterosexual. (Confusion may arise because some old medical texts refer to a “transsexual male” when they mean a transwoman, or refer to e.g. a lesbian transwoman as “heterosexual.”) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/23 "2006-08-20T09:44:36Z")
In the spirit of conciliation brought about by this decision, trans women have announced they will start spelling trans as tranzz. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/24 "2006-08-20T19:26:45Z")
Mrs. Dewgrrl and I were in attendance at the Festival earlier this month. It was my 3rd Fest since 1998, and my girlfriend’s first. I have always advocated (when a conversational opportunity presents itself, both within and outside the Festival) for the inclusion of all woman-identified beings, regardless of what bits one is born with. This was the 31st consecutive annual Festival put on by the same organizers. It has a broad-reaching lesbian cultural inertia, for lack of better words. When coming out as a babydyke in college (mid 1990’s), I ravenously consumed what books, publications, and media I could. A significant amount of that media referred to the MWMF. Music is written/inspired by it. Erotica is written about it. Stand-up comedy routines are written about it. This year, when lined up on the dirt road with all of the other Festival attendants waiting for admission through the gates, I was approached by a FtM transman carrying inclusion-friendly information and passing out yellow bands of ribbon to wear while in the festival, symbolizing the desire for the discussion of inclusion. I wore mine for as long as it would stay put. I have seen people who were arguably MtF and FtM transfolk every time I’ve been to Michigan, yet the policy that is publically discussed is “women born women” only. Despite the situation in the OP, I doubt the public face of the festival will change. I could be wrong. There is a significant seperatist population who supports the Festival. The policy, imho, is a somewhat political self-preservation. They don’t want to turn off their seperatist base. This year had very low numbers in attendance., especially compared to last year (the 30th anniversary and apparently quite the blow-out…I missed it). There are always concerns that the organizers will not be able to keep up the momentum with the numbers slipping. It is hard to tell with data from this year or last year. I’m much more interested in what happens at the Festival gates than what is debated about publically on message boards and websites. For now, inclusion is happening at the gate, and that is a Good Thing ™. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/25 "2006-08-20T20:09:19Z")
Oh, Christ, this doesn’t mean I have to _go_ to the thing, does it? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/26 "2006-08-20T20:11:34Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Oh, Christ, this doesn’t mean I have to _go_ to the thing, does it? [/QUOTE] Depends how you spell “wymen”. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/27 "2006-08-20T20:34:01Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Depends how you spell “wymen”. [/QUOTE] It’s spelled “womyn,” you… you _patriarch!_ ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/28 "2006-08-20T20:46:45Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Oh, Christ, this doesn’t mean I have to _go_ to the thing, does it? [/QUOTE] I think you’re safe - I doubt you meet the dress code requirements. I can’t at all imagine you in Birkenstocks and overalls. (Please don’t hit me, anybody. I went to a hairy-legged women’s college, I have Birkenstock cred. 😉 ) ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/29 "2006-08-20T21:15:58Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] It’s spelled “womyn,” you… you _patriarch!_ [/QUOTE] I have been struggling with the burden of my penis all my life. Many are the times I have tried to slowly abrade it down by repeated stroking, but against all expectations it grows LARGER. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/30 "2006-08-20T21:20:46Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] Oh, Christ, this doesn’t mean I have to _go_ to the thing, does it? [/QUOTE] No, dear. Completely optional. Don’t associate with people JUST because you share their gender (even if they don’t believe you do). Associate with quality people _regardless_ of their gender/orientation/hirsuiteness/whatever. My sister tried to drag me off to this festival for years. I never went, I just never felt comfortable even as the womyn-born sister of a promoter. Too much of a tomboy, I guess. Or something. She let it go, but some of her friends were.. um.. quite eloquent, shall we say, on my inadequacies as a “syster” or whatever. Which was the nail in the coffin as far as I was concerned. For the “friends” and the festival both. I had enough of people telling me I wasn’t feminine enough, ladylike enough, and so on - the last thing I wanted to do was hang out with a bunch of angry dykes who presumed to judge my “womanliness” when my installed-before-birth clit was just as good and functional theirs. Or whatever. :rolleyes: (Apologies to MWMF goers who aren’t like that - but I’m sure you’ve encountered the type) ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/31 "2006-08-20T21:34:33Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] I have been struggling with the burden of my penis all my life. Many are the times I have tried to slowly abrade it down by repeated stroking, but against all expectations it grows LARGER. :eek: [/QUOTE] Thank you, my fellow Oppresed Brothyr. Alas, it’ll be a cold day in Persephone’s Winter Home, when we’re allowed into the MWMF! ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/32 "2006-08-20T21:35:09Z")
[QUOTE=Zsofia] I think you’re safe - I doubt you meet the dress code requirements. I can’t at all imagine you in Birkenstocks and overalls. [/QUOTE] I can just see me breezing in decked out like [Kay Francis](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.noirfilm.com/kay%2520francis.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.noirfilm.com/Screenings_Poverty_Row_2.htm&h=440&w=344&sz=16&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=du9_7Fm3LGx_2M:&tbnh=127&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522Kay-Francis%2522%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG) and asking, “So, darlings, _where_ is the ladies’ room, I _must_ freshen up my lipstick!” ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/33 "2006-08-20T22:35:21Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] It’s spelled “womyn,” you… you _patriarch!_ [/QUOTE] Yeah, do they let in womEn born womEn? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/34 "2006-08-20T22:57:38Z")
[QUOTE=Eve] I can just see me breezing in decked out like [Kay Francis](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.noirfilm.com/kay%2520francis.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.noirfilm.com/Screenings_Poverty_Row_2.htm&h=440&w=344&sz=16&hl=en&start=2&tbnid=du9_7Fm3LGx_2M:&tbnh=127&tbnw=99&prev=/images%3Fq%3D%2522Kay-Francis%2522%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG) and asking, “So, darlings, _where_ is the ladies’ room, I _must_ freshen up my lipstick!” [/QUOTE] I would pay good money to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/35 "2006-08-20T23:00:29Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I would pay good money to see that. [/QUOTE] Is there **bad** money? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/36 "2006-08-20T23:17:14Z")
[QUOTE=Boyo Jim] Is there **bad** money? [/QUOTE] No. And if I ever have to settle a debt with you, I intend to pay it in [these.](http://pages.sbcglobal.net/bryanbaskin/pix/monopoly_money.jpg) Money is money, right? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/37 "2006-08-20T23:21:35Z")
Great! I’ve been hoping to get into Atlantic City real estate. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/38 "2006-08-21T00:08:18Z")
Thanks, **honeydewgrrl** , from my heart. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/39 "2006-08-21T03:16:09Z")
> [@](#): > > For now, inclusion is happening at the gate, and that is a Good Thing ™. Inclusion for trans-women, but continued exclusion of anyone who still identifies as male. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2006, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300/40 "2006-08-21T05:11:41Z")
[QUOTE=Shoshana] “Just as one penis plus one penis equals nothing, one vagina plus another vagina still equals zero.” (269) [/QUOTE] That must be that ‘New Math’ I keep hearing so much about. 😉 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/michigan-womyns-music-festival-now-openly-admitting-out-trans-women/369300.md?page=3)