# Mick Foley is the greatest wrestler EVER. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 3, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097 "2003-07-03T19:00:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/1 "2003-07-03T19:00:35Z")
I have recently found (thanks to [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194354) thread) that I am not the only wrestling fan on SDMB. I decided to write a bit about how I came to the conclusion that Mick Foley is the greatest out there. Yes, better than Ric Flair, better than HBK, better than Hogan (not like that’s very hard), even better than Bret Hart. I didn’t get into wrestling until about 4 years ago. A friend made me watch a pay-per-view, and it was decidedly more entertaining than I thought it would be. About a month later we went to a house show (the wrestlers travel on the days they aren’t doing TV and do some shows just for the live audiences). This goofy guitar riff started playing, and out walked this fat guy in a tie and leather mask, carrying a book. He had just come back from writing his first book, and took “revenge” on Triple H for having “injured” and “putting him on the shelf” for three months. In the next 8 months or so, I watched the creation of the Rock ‘n’ Sock Connection, the return of Cactus Jack, and his subsequent retiring at the hands of Triple H. A few months after that he came back as Commissioner for almost a year, I think. Anyway, the reason I think he’s my favorite of all time is not his technical wrestling skill, of which he admittedly has very little. He always made me laugh, and he never took what he did too seriously. I mean, when some people have some finishing moves that look quite painful and almost real, how can you not laugh at a guy who pulls a sock out of his pants, puts it on his hand, and tries to jam his hand down the other guy’s throat? I totally marked out when he returned to referee the Hell-in-the-Cell match a few weeks ago. As soon as Stone Cold said he was going to have to find a “crazy SOB” to do it, the entire stadium broke out in a chant… _…Foley…Foley…Foley…_ That’s why I think he’s the best ever. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/2 "2003-07-03T19:14:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\* > I didn’t get into wrestling until about 4 years ago. > \*\* Mick Foley is the best and most interesting wrestler in the last 4 years. No question. I’ve been watching wrestling for over 25 years. **Ric Flair is the greatest wrestler ever**. Or at least the greatest wrestler in the last quarter century. No question. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/3 "2003-07-03T20:17:58Z")
It’s not what one would traditionally call talent, but it is talent, nonetheless. He has an uncanny ability to work a crowd, and is genuinely funny. He’s type that makes you think on the one hand “I don’t want him to leave, he’s so entertaining,” but on the other hand “I hope he does leave, I’m worried he’ll seriously injure himself.” Try to get a hold of some of his matches. Specifically, Hell In The Cell, vs. Undertaker. Unbe-fuckin-leivable. I recommend his book, too. He wrote it himself (as opposed to the then-WWF marketing staff) and it chronicles his very interesting life, including many years with Terry Funk, who could also be counted on to sacrifice himself for the show. It’s a very good book on its own merits; it doesn’t reek of marketing. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/4 "2003-07-03T20:53:11Z")
He takes very brutal bumps and is one of the better mic workers of the recent era but he is _not_ a good all around wrestler, let alone the best ever. It’s obvious by your statement that you’ve only been watching for four years now. Hell, even in the current crop, Angle is better and he’s still a newcomer. Foley is a niche wrestler that got lucky in getting a character that Attitude era fans got behind and was rewarded for being over and a good guy by being given the title. To call him a better wrestler than Flair, Steamboat, Bret or Owen Hart, Rude, Scott Steiner in his heyday, Arn Anderson, Vader, or any other number of wrestlers I can’t think of right now is laughable. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/5 "2003-07-03T21:13:54Z")
I hate not being able to edit posts here. In my opinion, Al Snow, Booker T, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Goldust, Hurricane, Kurt Angle, Matt Hardy, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, and William Regal (yes, I went to [WWE.com](http://WWE.com)) are all at Foley’s level in popularity (not necessarily now, but hav been massively over before), talent, general mic skills, and so on. Taking away everything but talent and he falls near the bottom of everyone employed. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/6 "2003-07-03T21:17:02Z")
…and also, I’m not trying to hate on the guy. I read both his books and enjoyed them immensely. They were hysterical but being funny doesn’t make you a good wrestler. ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/7 "2003-07-03T21:57:49Z")
Well, what I liked about him is that he took great bumps, and could really sell a move. He could tell a story in the ring. Technically he wasn’t incredible, but he did the Basics better than most. Certainly one of the best Mic workers WWE has had. ---
**Author:** ![raizok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4491bb/32.png) [@raizok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raizok)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/8 "2003-07-03T22:51:28Z")
I miss good mic work. Its so sloppy these days, especially when stupid fans keep chanting “what?!” after every word or two, bunch of fucking retards. Its hard to like wrestling anymore, give back my King Kong Bundy and George “the animal” Steele anyday. ---
**Author:** ![Ersatz\_Shmoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ersatz\_Shmoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ersatz_Shmoe)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2003, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/9 "2003-07-03T23:15:32Z")
I don’t know about the best _wrestler_ of all time, but I would have to say Foley/Undertaker Hell in the Cell has to be the best match ever. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing. ---
**Author:** ![hikeeba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/278dde/32.png) [@hikeeba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hikeeba)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/10 "2003-07-04T00:05:40Z")
I was not a fan of his matches simply because watching them was nauseating. I can only remember watching one of them all the way through. I prefer wrestlers that can put on a good show without having to cripple themselves. ---
**Author:** ![rolandgunslinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/cdc98d/32.png) [@rolandgunslinger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rolandgunslinger)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/11 "2003-07-04T00:08:32Z")
Being from Memphis I’m a big Jerry Lawler fan. I mean I grew up watching him wrestle everyone from Hulk Hogan to the Undertaker (of course he was called Mean Mark then).It seems to me that anybody who is somebody has wresteled in Memphis. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/12 "2003-07-04T00:49:07Z")
Les than half of being a great wrestler is physical talent. You have to be a great salesman. You have to sell yourself to the target audience. You have act. You have to get the crowd involved. Hulk Hogan, with no wrestling talent at all, except for sticking his leg straight out, has proved that. IMHO opinion Mick Foley is the best salesman out there. ---
**Author:** ![hardygrrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@hardygrrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hardygrrl)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/13 "2003-07-04T00:57:27Z")
I love Foley. Great on the mic - during his last Raw appearence he made Austin break character and crack up laughing. Legendary bumptaker - from the Japanese Death Matches to WWE. I find I mark for bumptakers (Foley and Spike Dudley) and highflyers. (Rob Van Dam, Jeff Hardy, Lo Ki, Ultimo Dragon and Rey Mysterio) And I would mark out hardcore if Shark Boy did a runin during a HHH monologue. Especially if he brought New Jack and they used the Hulk Hands again. 😃 “I-uh lead uh-Evolution…what the hell is that?” _cheese grater to the noggin_ [sub]hardygrrl…who is wearing one of her ECW shirts at the moment.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/14 "2003-07-04T02:12:40Z")
There’s three kinds of wrestling I see out there. Cruiserweights, flying madly. Of them, I like Rey-Rey the best. Real wrestling. Mat wrestling. Austin is the best at this. Then, traditional Professional Wrestling. Best described by Mick Foley as punch-kick, punch-kick. It’s sloppy, but it allows for huge telegraphing of moves. These days it’s usually used either as interstatials between mat wrestling, or by the top stars. Rocky’s Big Right Hand being the modern version… Hogan and Undertaker being the old version. I dunno, there any other sorts out there that don’t slot that way? Oh, and what did y’all think of Mr. America? I can’t think of anyone else who could have pulled that old gag off any better. I happen to think it was one of the best storylines the WWF’s pulled off in ages. (Then again, I think the Hulk-Vince match was the best on Wrestlemania for entertainment value. Classic. Big Boot. Test of Strength. And the Eyebrow Raising Over The Mat.) Wouldn’t want a steady diet of it, but it’s nice to have it, time and again. Smackdown thoughts: I want to see Zack do the Worm. Whatever happened to him, anyhow? Scotty2Hotty? Or, uh, Spike Dudley. Well, Kurt and Brock were cool. Undertaker and Cena aren’t half bad, either. Yeah, not a bad show, but too much Vince by half. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/15 "2003-07-04T02:45:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Aesiron \* > **In my opinion, Al Snow, Booker T, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Goldust, Hurricane, Kurt Angle, Matt Hardy, Ric Flair, Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, The Rock, Triple H, and William Regal (yes, I went to [WWE.com](http://WWE.com)) are all at Foley’s level in popularity (not necessarily now, but hav been massively over before), talent, general mic skills, and so on.** William Regal? Oh, come on! You’ve got to be kidding! I have very little respect for his in ring ability. He only get’s heat because Americans hate arrogant British snobs. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/16 "2003-07-04T02:49:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > **Oh, and what did y’all think of Mr. America? I can’t think of anyone else who could have pulled that old gag off any better. I happen to think it was one of the best storylines the WWF’s pulled off in ages. (Then again, I think the Hulk-Vince match was the best on Wrestlemania for entertainment value. Classic. Big Boot. Test of Strength. And the Eyebrow Raising Over The Mat.) Wouldn’t want a steady diet of it, but it’s nice to have it, time and again.** I’ve been reading that Hulk Hogan quit again. Supposedly he wants to start up the XWF again and compete with Vince. The dumbass! Doesn’t he realize that nobody else out there is willing to pay that much money to guys in their 50’s who can’t really wrestle anymore? $10 says he comes crawling back within six months. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/17 "2003-07-04T04:44:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lord Ashtar \* > \*\*William Regal? Oh, come on! You’ve got to be kidding! I have very little respect for his in ring ability. He only get’s heat because Americans hate arrogant British snobs. \*\* Regal’s one of the best wrestlers in the Federation. Only Benoit, the Guerreros, Jericho, Storm, Lesnar, Angle and a few others are on his level. Yes, it’s a rather unorthodox style when compared to the Rock, Austin, and the other Sports Entertainers but he’s still a better _wrestler_ than a hundred Foleys could be. In addition to that, he has a gimmick that gets him good heat (it’s stereotypicalness notwithstanding), has been over in the past, and has good mic skills. Like him or hate him, Regal is a _great_ wrestler. Oh, yeah… I love cruisers and middle heavyweights (Benoit, Angle, Jericho, Guerrero… guys that can go at it in any style), for the most part. I used to have a six hour compilation tape of nothing but Kaentai matches. Best $10 I ever spent. ---
**Author:** ![Verminous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5e9695/32.png) [@Verminous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Verminous)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/18 "2003-07-04T05:18:59Z")
Mick’s talent lies in his recklessness - which barely makes him a wrestler in the traditional sense. Ever see him in a normal singles match? The Mandible claw is just about the best move he can execute since he has zero arm strength. He might be the best ‘hardcore’ wrestler, but that simply means he can wield a chair or a baseball bat really well. Whoever said Austin is the best at ‘mat wrestling’ obviously doesn’t watch wrestling. Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle immediately come to mind when it comes to the most technical aspects of wrestling. All Austin does (or did, considering his neck) is stomp and drop elbows. At one point in time he was good at these little things, but certainly not now. He abandoned that when he became ’ Stone Cold’. Not that he needed the fundamentals at this point… Regarding the best of all time, no one mentions Lou Thesz? Right when wrestling was first hitting it big on television, he was NWA champion. The “real” era - where if promoters had a disagreement, the wrestlers would really go at it to settle it. Guy wrestled (against Masahiro Chono in Japan) when he was in his 80s, IIRC. There’s a reason that the Thesz press is still used today. Man was, and still is a legend. The real deal if there ever was one. If we’re talking about a combination of entertainment and wrestling skill, then you’re talking about Shawn Michaels, the Rock, Ric Flair, and maybe even Randy Savage. By skill, not only do I mean a wide array of moves but also execution. Check out the Rock’s execution - perfect. Shawn Michaels in his prime? Flawless. Ric Flair still has it, too, after all these years. And I’d be stupid not to mention The Hitman, Bret Hart. To mention Foley as even close to the GOAT is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/19 "2003-07-04T15:45:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Verminous \* > **Whoever said Austin is the best at ‘mat wrestling’ obviously doesn’t watch wrestling. Chris Benoit and Kurt Angle immediately come to mind when it comes to the most technical aspects of wrestling. All Austin does (or did, considering his neck) is stomp and drop elbows. At one point in time he was good at these little things, but certainly not now. He abandoned that when he became ’ Stone Cold’. Not that he needed the fundamentals at this point…** I remember a couple matches right after he came back from neck surgery where I was really impressed by SCSA’s technical skills. One was the match against Kurt Angle right before Triple H admitted to being the one who orchestrated getting him hit by a car. The other was a match on Raw against Chris Benoit that lasted over 30 minutes when Benoit hit him with a chain of 10 german suplexes. I admit, most of the time all he did was punch-kick-punch-kick, but Stone Cold did have some talent. The neck injury probably effected this greatly. He’s still no match for either Angle or Benoit, even in his heyday. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2003, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097/20 "2003-07-04T16:31:48Z")
I meant Angle and typed Austin. No excuse. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mick-foley-is-the-greatest-wrestler-ever/186097.md?page=2)