# Microagressions, political correctness, innate bias, and hypersensitivity. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 11, 2015, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261 "2015-06-11T15:47:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/201 "2015-06-18T02:11:12Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > When our kids were asked “where are you REALLY from” my wife selected her Cornish ancestors, who were known to light fires, guiding ships onto rocks, for a little pin money when the tin mines were closed, my Frisian ancestors, who believed they were descended from the Little Mermaid, her own damn self (the legend got garbled over the centuries). Thus my children are descended from pirates and mermaids. They didn’t mention the Little Mermaid herself because they didn’t want to be seen as putting on airs and graces. Garden variety mermaids are good enough, and still better stock than any of their classmates came from. > > There’s no point in wasting a nosy question by not giving a wiseass answer. That is at least 7 or 8 kinds of awesome. I wish I were descended from pirates and mermaids. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/202 "2015-06-18T02:11:39Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > I don’t know who you meant by the third PhD. Tim Hunt. Apparently stating that women in the lab can be distracting is a crime so outrageous that a Nobel Prize isn’t enough to keep you employed. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/203 "2015-06-18T02:26:33Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Tim Hunt. Apparently stating that women in the lab can be distracting is a crime so outrageous that a Nobel Prize isn’t enough to keep you employed. Thank you. It was tickling at my brain but I couldn’t actually retrieve the name. I did enjoy the distractinglysexy hashtag, but I don’t feel his remarks were particularly conducive to an effective work environment. Should he have resigned? Hounded out, as he said he was? Probably not. Should he have been shocked that UCL, f[irst University in England to admit women on equal terms,](http://www.ucl.ac.uk/news/news-articles/0615/100615-tim-hunt) wouldn’t be terribly impressed with sexism in the lab? Yeah, no. Should he have made a sexist remark about how a woman scientist will cry if you criticize her? Definitely not. We live in an interconnected world. A well regarded scientist making remarks that imply a woman’s place is not in the STEM fields can have a tremendous impact. You can be an amazing scientist but if your statements have an overall detrimental effect on your field, repercussions can be expected. The repercussions may be political, financial (in the terms of grants) or just in reducing overall interest. ---
**Author:** ![Habeed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a587f6/32.png) [@Habeed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Habeed)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/204 "2015-06-18T02:34:16Z")
The point is that his remarks dangerous skirt close to being _truthful_. This is what makes me angry. In my field, I have noticed that the few women that enter it (a) usually aren’t amazing at it, average at best (b) soon leave. I don’t have anything to do with evaluating the efforts of these women, I’m just calling it like I see it. I try to avoid sexist remarks when I can…but anything that even acknowledges the physical reality that the other person is not a man can be thought of as sexist if you try hard enough. Anyways, I’m not a Nobel prize winning scientist. Maybe if I were, women who work personally in the lab with me personally might fall in love with me (a Nobel prize winning scientist is literally a rock star in the science world. Just saying) and maybe their efforts would not be up to the standards of a scientist with a Nobel. Neither would the efforts of most men. And, it’s also simple physical reality that if attractive women are around, men will be distracted. These men aren’t trying to be sexist, they are trying to be professional, but there’s a chunk of tissue in their brain that is sending signals - a lot of signals. They can’t help it. Even what I just said in this post would probably get me fired if it were publicly attached to my name and I were in academia. It’s one thing if someone has something to say that’s clearly intended to be a message of hate towards a particular group. It’s another when the message may potentially be the actual truth. That’s really what we mean by “political correctness” being so destructive a force - it prevents you from saying the truth because the message can be construed as \. Why is Africa doing so poorly, except for one country that has oil wealth? Why are cities with a lot of black people in the United States so crime-filled? Yeah, maybe it is the discrimination of white people and the colonial exploitation that mostly stopped many decades ago. Or, maybe the common trend here is black people. It’s not an unreasonable conclusion to reach - but political correctness prevents you from even talking about it. (super political correctness prevents you from even noticing that some people are, uh, black, because “race is a construct”…) ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/205 "2015-06-18T02:41:42Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > My question had nothing to do with the **term** , but rather the movement, which was what I was answering. So again, if we drop the MOVEMENT (call it whatever you like) how do things change? If no one talks about what’s wrong, how do we change? And no, I am NOT asking the question assuming I know your answer. If your objection is solely to the label, well, I actually agree. I think microagression implies a level of malice that is not consciously there. > > So what DO you think? I am not assuming a thing. I really want to know. Without discussing it, how do we change social attitudes? I am not of favor of random MOVEMENTS in any direction unless they are based on sound premises. This general idea isn’t so I am opposed to it. I would be willing to listen to more logically sound and actionable complaints if anyone can come up with a coherent one. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/206 "2015-06-18T02:42:34Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > I try to avoid sexist remarks when I can…but anything that even acknowledges the physical reality that the other person is not a man can be thought of as sexist if you try hard enough. In my workplace, there’s no particular reason to acknowledge the physical reality that the other person is not a man. It’s not forbidden, but it has nothing to do with, you know, WORK. I know there are some fields where it’s relevant (e.g. sex work), but really, how many of us work in them? Same with race, ethnicity, sexuality, religion. I teach in a university. Every class has really sexy students. But it would be wildly inappropriate for me to say or do anything that acknowledges their hotness. If I’m distracted, that would be my problem, and it’s incumbent on me not to visit that on the class. You can be as sexist as you like in your social life. There, your friends’ and family’s remedy is to ignore you until you quit being «checks forum» less than ideal. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/207 "2015-06-18T02:53:32Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > I am not of favor of random MOVEMENTS in any direction unless they are based on sound premises. This general idea isn’t so I am opposed to it. I would be willing to listen to more logically sound and actionable complaints if anyone can come up with a coherent one. So you don’t believe that this MOVEMENT has any solid basis? ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/208 "2015-06-18T02:59:58Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So you don’t believe that this MOVEMENT has any solid basis? And _sigh_ this is not some rhetorical “gotcha.” I am trying to clarify and distill. I want to confirm your stance. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/209 "2015-06-18T03:05:31Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > That is at least 7 or 8 kinds of awesome. I wish I were descended from pirates and mermaids. Easy to do it. Look at your ethnic make-up and find the bad things other people were saying about them and the good things they were saying about themselves. Recent stuff is usually boring–the Cornish these days are mostly just stereotyped as fat, pasty, drunks who get into fights, and Frisia pretty much no longer exists. Older sources are better; they’re where you get the kings and rascals, and very little of it is true! Lots of room for embroidery. If people ask, “Where are you REALLY from?” it’s an invitation to play with their stereotypes, and most people will swallow anything if you sell it well. If you are of some sort of West African descent in this country, it’s unlikely you know where your ancestors are REALLY from, so I offer the [Gambaga Witch camp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambaga_Witch_camp) as a good place to have “come from.” It’s old enough for the slave trade and its residents were likely to have been sold into slavery, where they could cast spells and place curses on someone else. And you just inherited that ability! What I am saying is that people should consider trolling their aggressors. Have fun making them uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/210 "2015-06-18T03:53:46Z")
> [@raventhief](#): > > So you don’t believe that this MOVEMENT has any solid basis? I don’t believe in MOVEMENTS, I only believe in individual people treating each other well and reciprocating kindness even when there is a misunderstanding of norms. I see this misappropriation of terms getting in the way of true kindness even if there was a good way to enforce it and there isn’t. I also do not believe that any particular group has cornered the market on people that bring ill fate upon themselves. I am not anyone’s protector or adversary unless given good reason to act otherwise. I said it above in the thread. I am a white guy that went to an Ivy League school and my only true prejudice is white extreme liberals. I really don’t like them in general personally. Blacks, Mexicans and everyone else are fine because I grew up with them and like their style. They take me out to restaurants, strip clubs and other places that I never would have gone to on my own and that is excellent in my book. I intentionally took a job in an industrial setting just so that I wouldn’t have to listen to all the bullshit psych-babble that extreme white liberals in the Boston areas spew just as often as they piss. My job is to serve for the formerly underprivileged that made a decent life for themselves and we absolutely kick ass at our overall mission to an extreme degree. OTOH, some of the language used on a daily basis can get more than a little intense and that is just the females. Micro-aggression is a laughable concept in an industrial environment. Everyone is treated equally but safety concerns are much more important. Anyone could be killed instantly if someone isn’t doing their job well because of all the heavy machinery in use. Everyone tells everyone else exactly what they think and that is essential to that type of work environment. I believe this is yet another example of white people projecting what they think is a solution to a problem that doesn’t even exist in the form presented. The real solution is just for both sides to be aware that each side has its own point of view and there isn’t necessarily any ‘victim’ even if you feel temporally annoyed by something. The intentions may have been neutral or even intentionally positive but it didn’t come off that way. There is no way to know because the possible permutations of cultural interactions are close enough to infinite for government work. In other words, just be nice to people as best you know how. If they take offense at something unintentional, joke them if they can’t take a fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/211 "2015-06-18T06:54:04Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > The person complaining was not a child. it was in response to swearing at a teacher. > [@](#): > > “Ladies” and “gentlemen” not having class implications is odd to me. So when an MC starts their spiel with “good evening ladies and gentlemen” does that have class implications too? ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/212 "2015-06-18T08:06:43Z")
What’s this one? Take 12 or so on 'Political Correct" speak? “PC” was a joke when it first appeared c 1988. I have a set of Looney Tunes (TGAOLT) laserdiscs with a side labelled “Politically Incorrect” with about 10 old cartoons with typical-of-the-time ethnic stereotypes. You will never see these distributed again. In 1968, when UA bought the old LT/MM catalog, they identified 11 that they would never release. Including “Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarfs” - one of the most spectacular WWII cartoons, and always ranked in the top 20 of all “Best Cartoons of All Time” lists. When I started collecting, I made it a point to collect those 11 and distribute them. Ebay didn’t like me. Point: Do not take offense when none is intended. EVERYBODY: Dial It Down! ---
**Author:** ![usedtobe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ec9cab/32.png) [@usedtobe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/usedtobe)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/213 "2015-06-18T08:11:00Z")
Old quote: “A gentleman never causes offense _unintentionally_”. We seem to keep painting gentlemen into an ever-smaller circle. And for those about to rip me a new one for using the term "gentlemen’ - that is the quote. DEAL WITH IT! I am one of the few I know who adopted the term “gentlepersons”, as used by Edith of WFB - hiya Edith! ---
**Author:** ![Double\_Foolscap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85e7bf/32.png) [@Double\_Foolscap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Double_Foolscap)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 8:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/214 "2015-06-18T08:43:40Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > None of this is at the level of catcalls or visibly checking her out, etc. Only the calling her “darling” is even worthy of mention. I mean, > > 1. She is a woman, right? It’s natural to think she might do better with a smaller shovel. > 2. Digging is hard work. The builders are trying to be nice - they probably have triple her strength if not more > 3. Triple her strength, if not more. Sure is easier to carry stuff if you can also carry those bags of concrete and heavy tools all day. > 4. We wouldn’t want the lady to crash on her way out… From your subsequent posts I can see that this wasn’t satire. Other people have addressed these posts, but I will relate what my wife has expressed to me while blowing off steam, in the hope that some day you will see how wrong you are. 1. No, she does not need a smaller shovel, she uses that size every day without her womb falling out. It’s her job. She’s an archaeologist. 2. She’s been a goddamn archaeologist in a professional capacity for more than three years. Do you (I’m addressing the builder here) know the difference between natural, backfill, and a whole other load of technical terms that ensure you don’t destroy some thousand-year-old feature? No? Then fuck the fuck off and let her do her job. (Again, I’m paraphrasing what she would like to say to the builder here.) 3. This isn’t bags of concrete we’re talking about, it’s a mattock and spade. You know, the things that she uses to, on a regular basis, shift over a ton of earth a day in most weathers. You know, like (gasp) _an archaeologist_. 4. Oh my fucking God, you can’t be serious. If the troglodytes she’s forced to work with would look past her tits and see that she’s a professional in her actual work environment, not some silly wee girlie with a clipboard getting in the way of the big machines, then none of this would happen. Of course, if she _were_ to bring any of this up, she’d be a bitch and just complaining. Can you see why this might be annoying? ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/215 "2015-06-18T11:50:18Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > The point is that his remarks dangerous skirt close to being _truthful_. This is what makes me angry. In my field, I have noticed that the few women that enter it (a) usually aren’t amazing at it, average at best (b) soon leave. > > I don’t have anything to do with evaluating the efforts of these women, I’m just calling it like I see it. I try to avoid sexist remarks when I can…but anything that even acknowledges the physical reality that the other person is not a man can be thought of as sexist if you try hard enough. I have to admit that “Well, to be fair, I think sexists and racists are pretty much right” is definitely more refreshing way to discuss what people often actually want to discuss when they start these “innocent” debates. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 12:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/216 "2015-06-18T12:09:56Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > Even what I just said in this post would probably get me fired if it were publicly attached to my name and I were in academia. > > It’s one thing if someone has something to say that’s clearly intended to be a message of hate towards a particular group. It’s another when the message may potentially be the actual truth. That’s really what we mean by “political correctness” being so destructive a force - it prevents you from saying the truth because the message can be construed as \. > > Why is Africa doing so poorly, except for one country that has oil wealth? Why are cities with a lot of black people in the United States so crime-filled? > > Yeah, maybe it is the discrimination of white people and the colonial exploitation that mostly stopped many decades ago. Or, maybe the common trend here is black people. It’s not an unreasonable conclusion to reach - but political correctness prevents you from even talking about it. (super political correctness prevents you from even noticing that some people are, uh, black, because “race is a construct”…) For someone who hates hypersensitivity, you manage to simultaneously play the victim while spouting some truly vile words. Kudos? ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/217 "2015-06-18T12:44:07Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > And, it’s also simple physical reality that if attractive women are around, men will be distracted. These men aren’t trying to be sexist, they are trying to be professional, but there’s a chunk of tissue in their brain that is sending signals - a lot of signals. They can’t help it. Perhaps if men are unable to control themselves in public, they should be restricted from positions of responsibility, for their own sakes as well as the public interest. I certainly don’t want someone conducting delicate experiments, evaluating data, or making important decisions if he is incapable of rational brain function under ordinary circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/218 "2015-06-18T12:47:33Z")
> [@Habeed](#): > > And, it’s also simple physical reality that if attractive women are around, men will be distracted. These men aren’t trying to be sexist, they are trying to be professional, but there’s a chunk of tissue in their brain that is sending signals - a lot of signals. They can’t help it. Yes, they can help it. Women don’t get catcalled in every city. Men can choose to behave this way or not. ---
**Author:** ![gallows\_fodder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8c91f0/32.png) [@gallows\_fodder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gallows_fodder)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/219 "2015-06-18T13:03:44Z")
Hmmm. Let’s compare: > [@Habeed](#): > > And, it’s also simple physical reality that if attractive women are around, men will be distracted. These men aren’t trying to be sexist, they are trying to be professional, but there’s a chunk of tissue in their brain that is sending signals - a lot of signals. They can’t help it. and > [@What's the deal with women only gyms?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-deal-with-women-only-gyms/722575/71): > > That’s what I remind myself when “we need to teach young men not to rape” initiatives take the format of gathering all the boys into a room and telling them “OK, left to your own devices, you are all naturally rapists…” Hmmmmm. Makes you think. Either you can control yourselves (you can) or you can’t (you can). So, stop falling back on stereotypes when it suits you and start controlling yourselves. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2015, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261/220 "2015-06-18T13:36:01Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > But again, that’s the point. As long as people can say, “well, I didn’t mean anything,” that’s an excuse. Then they don’t have to change their behavior. It’s also kind of blaming the victim. > > In this thread, a lot of people seem committed to seeing them as whole incidents. The metric prefix _micro-_ is one millionth. Maybe that will help: > > The aggressor is only committing one millionth of an aggression. That’s not so bad. > The victim receives a millions of them. That’s pretty bad. And you never know whether your insignificant one-millionth of an aggression is their millionth one-millionth. Aggression simply doesn’t work that way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microagressions-political-correctness-innate-bias-and-hypersensitivity/722261.md?page=12)