# Microsoft Split? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 8, 2000, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721 "2000-06-08T04:34:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![emarkp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3be4f8/32.png) [@emarkp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emarkp)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/21 "2000-06-08T20:26:46Z")
> [@](#): > > I referr to instability due to a mass availablility of the entire source code, making is incredibly easy for folks to be able to tap into the data. How is that a bad thing? What is bad about having the source code for the OS? It means that people can actually find the bugs, or fix security holes. Security/safety through secrets is not the way to go, because those secrets can be leaked out. Security through a means which is secure **even though** everyone has the source is (by definition) more secure. As for instability due to many diverse developers–I just don’t see it. It is all rolled back into one central repository, so that the useful changes can be brought back in. I don’t see a problem there. As for your other claim > [@](#): > > again, Linux cannot undermine windows on the home front. Lunix is way too archaic for the bulk of users. What is archaic about it? Are you complaining about the UI? Remember that DOS is hideously archaic, yet there it sits, underneath Win95, Win98, Win98SE, and (soon) Win98ME. ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/22 "2000-06-08T20:40:49Z")
Oops! That didn’t come out right… I wrote: > [@](#): > > Linux is the best thing going and it’s going pretty strong. What I should have said is: > [@](#): > > As far as cross platform unix ports go, Linux is the best thing going and it’s going pretty strong. I don’t use Linux that much myself (though I use unix a lot), but what I’ve seen of it, it’s very robust and user friendly to those who don’t need to or want to know how the innards work… BurnMeUp wrote: > [@](#): > > Then again most people are on one side or the other… the Linux slaves who are only interested in seeing their “pet os” start try to survive on one side… the rest of the industry on the other. Actually, I’m in inner turmoil. My mostly Mac and unix side could care less what happens to Microsoft… But my financial side kinda wishes the government would have just left well enough alone. It certainly would have done better for my technology investments (ouch!). If I were a technology developer that competes directly with Microsoft, this would give me some hope of finally getting out from under the Microsoft dictatorship… ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/23 "2000-06-08T20:54:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > vandal: > > Actually, PowerPoint may be an example of what you’re looking for… or was this stolen from something else? > \*\* Adobe Persuasion. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/24 "2000-06-08T21:21:11Z")
BurnMeUp, You seem to be under the impression that home users, the ones who use AOL, are the ones whose buying power influences the bundling decisions of the PC manufacturers. This is only true for the minority of manufacturers. The big four (Dell, IBM, HP and Compaq) really cater to the needs of enterprise users. Those users are not at all afraid to use a system that’s a bit awkward at the end-user level, provided that it offers the kind of stability and security that Linux is known for (contrary to your assertions). If you researched this topic a bit, you would find that the big four are making definite efforts to offer products that will meet the expectations of a quickly growing Linux customer base. The rest of the manufacturers, the little guys, will follow suit as soon as they are able to safely disengage Microsoft. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/25 "2000-06-08T21:25:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* > If Microsoft is ultimately forced to break up into two, personally, I think that’ll be very bad. The software on both ends is going to be buggier. > > Having the same developers develop the OS and the applications for that very OS is Microsoft’s fuel. > > If those developers are not on the same playing field, applications will take longer to be produced and will not integrate as well into the OS. > \*\* MS’s having control and complete knowledge of both the API (application program interface of the OS) and the applications gives them an UNFAIR advantage compared to every other software developer. Its been my personal experience that non-MS software generally runs better than MS software anyhow. Micrsoft’s fuel? Fuel for what, creating an illegal anti-competitive monopogy by driving competitors like DRDOS out of business by modifying the OS so that DRDOS purposly won’t run under Windows 3.11? Or are you talking about MS’s price control on OEM (original equipment manufacturers) by threating to raise prices if they load competitor’s software like Netscape or OS/2? Or maybe you’re talking about MS’s embrace, extend, and extinguish philosophy on driving out competitors by making small changes to open standards, filling the market with MS products that rely on those changes and then not allowing others to use the changed standard or protocol because of copyright issues? Breaking up MS will make the industry a lot more fair by forcing MS to act just like a normal company that has to deal with normal market forces instead of pushing vendors and competitors around because they have complete control over the OS and market they are developing software for. ---
**Author:** ![LateComer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5ac83/32.png) [@LateComer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LateComer)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/26 "2000-06-08T21:26:45Z")
## Aramis wrote: ## Quicken begat Money, Wordperfect and others begat Word, Lotus begat Excel, X-Windows and the Mac OS begat Windows And thus Warcraft begat Age of Empires. ---
**Author:** ![Tymp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Tymp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tymp)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/27 "2000-06-08T21:32:09Z")
Finagle, Which came first, Persuasion or Freelance? ---
**Author:** ![Devil\_In\_Disguise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Devil\_In\_Disguise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Devil_In_Disguise)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/28 "2000-06-08T21:34:15Z")
> [@](#): > > **This is only true for the minority of manufacturers. The big four (Dell, IBM, HP and Compaq) really cater to the needs of enterprise users. Those users are not at all afraid to use a system that’s a bit awkward at the end-user level, provided that it offers the kind of stability and security that Linux is known for (contrary to your assertions).** I can’t resist the urge to hijack this thread for a moment for a personal story related to this. Early in 1997 I worked at Dell Computers, having been brought onboard to do a Unix port of a utility program Dell had written for Windows. Michael Dell had a reputation for hating Unix and I saw it for myself when I gave him a personal demonstration of the software I wrote. Now three years later, Dell is one of the OEMs embracing Linux and I have to feel justice has come into the world. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/29 "2000-06-08T22:33:50Z")
You can make arguments on either side of the proposed MS split being ultimately good/bad for consumers / stockholders / the economy etc. what is straightforward is that Gates and Co brought this on themselves with a blatant series of mis-representations and outright lies that they apparently thought they would never be caught at. The amusing part is that for all their technical prowess and the vast resources at their disposal to train and represent them in litigation that they were such bad and incompetent liars and kept tripping over their own emails, rigged “demonstrations” etc. Even if MS could have made a reasonable case, ultimately the judge got tired of being lied to with such astounding arrogance and that’s one of the main reasons the spanking has been so harsh. ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/30 "2000-06-08T22:45:08Z")
Folks, there’s a thread on this exact subject in Great Debates, [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=26172). Please take your arguments there. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![vandal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/858c86/32.png) [@vandal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vandal)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2000, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/31 "2000-06-08T22:56:37Z")
What are you, putting words in my mouth now, or what? Powerpoint? Wouldn’t touch the thing with a 10 foot pole. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/32 "2000-06-09T00:18:38Z")
> [@](#): > > Actually, PowerPoint may be an example of what you’re looking for… or was this stolen from something else? (“what you’re looking for” = an example of genuine Microsoft innovation) I don’t think so. IIRC, the original, and market leader for awhile, was a product called Astound, by Gold Disk. Lotus and Microsoft elected to compete with it, with…um…Freelance? and of course PowerPoint. The Lotus product may still be around. Gold Disk, a pony of the single-trick variety, seems to have left the arena some time ago. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2000, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/33 "2000-06-09T00:33:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Adobe Persuasion. Oh yeah, of course, right! Gold Disk Astound versus Adobe Persuasion, then LATER the Lotus offering and the Microsoft entry. Can’t believe I forgot those Persuasion vs. Astound ads in MacUser magazine all those years back! ---
**Author:** ![JoeyBlades](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@JoeyBlades](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoeyBlades)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2000, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721/34 "2000-06-12T14:41:04Z")
I wrote: > [@](#): > > Actually, PowerPoint may be an example of what you’re looking for… Several people have pointed out that Persuasion was there first… which I should have remembered since I used to use Persuasion… so I stand corrected… Thankfully, I also wrote the disclaimer acknowledging that it might have come from somewhere else: > [@](#): > > or was this stolen from something else? So I don’t feel like a complete putz. Gates on the other hand **SHOULD** feel like a putz since it’s painfully apparent that Microsoft never innovated anything… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-split/21721.md?page=1)