# Microsoft Word and everyone else: Stop defaming passive voice **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** books-writing-myths\ **Created:** [November 17, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077 "2022-11-17T13:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/1 "2022-11-17T13:32:45Z")
There’s nothing wrong with the passive voice, so please cut it out with broad, generalized writing advice discouraging its use. The passive voice can be very useful. Especially in legal and technical documents, there are many cases in which ~~one might prefer to de-emphasize or not mention the actor at all~~ it might be preferable to de-emphasize or not mention the actor at all. That’s exactly why the passive voice exists. Just yesterday a colleague who drafted a text intended to explain a complex subject to laypersons found himself in a dilemma. Our supervisor told him not to use the second person (“you”) because that was too casual. However, Microsoft Word kept redlining his text to recommend he avoid passive voice, which in this case was in my view a very appropriate option. I have had bosses who just repeat the mantra “avoid passive voice” without understanding why. They read somewhere (probably freaking Strunk and White, the worst writing manual ever) that the active voice is exciting and breaks through brick walls at superspeed, and the passive voice gives people head colds and constipation. So they keep repeating as some kind of rote dictat, without ever thinking about the context and whether passive voice might be more useful or smoother or more appropriate for the situation. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/2 "2022-11-17T13:42:23Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Our supervisor told him not to use the second person (“you”) because that was too casual. “[One](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_(pronoun))” exists for just this usage, one feels. Not too casual, not too passive, that neutral third person (or fourth person, depending on your view) feels just right. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/3 "2022-11-17T13:45:53Z")
The English language is beautiful in all of its varied and sundry forms, and I believe in variety in both my speaking and writing in order to maximize its usage. I’m not a big fan of any English language rule that limits the usage of the language itself. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/4 "2022-11-17T13:47:25Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So they keep repeating as some kind of rote dictat, without ever thinking about the context and whether passive voice might be more useful or smoother or more appropriate for the situation. This is really an argument about context appropriateness. I’m certain you could provide compelling examples of useful passive voice to any of the critics and they would agree with the usage. Like you, I reserve the right to use passive voice, when appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/5 "2022-11-17T13:56:00Z")
I was going to write up a response, but then I saw this: > [@Acsenray](#): > > (probably freaking Strunk and White, the worst writing manual ever) [So let’s see.](https://www.gutenberg.org/files/37134/37134-h/37134-h.htm) This is the 1918 version - I don’t have a current one handy. > The active voice is usually more direct and vigorous than the passive: > This rule does not, of course, mean that the writer should entirely discard the passive voice, which is frequently convenient and sometimes necessary. > The habitual use of the active voice makes for forcible writing. All of this is true. “Default to the active voice” is a good rule. “Never use the passive voice” is a bad one. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/6 "2022-11-17T13:56:13Z")
Nothing wrong with it, except when it’s used to obscure or muddle the agent. Then it can easily contribute to sidestepping responsibility. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/7 "2022-11-17T14:02:11Z")
> [@susan](#): > > Then it can easily contribute to sidestepping responsibility. That’s not a problem with the writing or the usage. The writer’s intent might be to sidestep responsibility; that’s an intent issue, not a writing style issue. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/8 "2022-11-17T14:09:19Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > All of this is true. “Default to the active voice” is a good rule. “Never use the passive voice” is a bad one. I’m sure all they remember is the first sentence. Or they didn’t even read it themselves and heard second hand that “passive voice is bad.” ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/9 "2022-11-17T14:16:11Z")
I teach undergraduates. They’re generally oblivious and unintentional. It’s a revelation to them that sentences like “The Cherokee were sent west” or “The Phase 3 participants were administered a dosage that proved to be cumulatively toxic” disguise the agent of the action. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/10 "2022-11-17T14:18:58Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Or they didn’t even read it themselves and heard second hand that “passive voice is bad.” I believe it. But if your grasp of style and grammar is at the level where you can only keep binary rules in your head, “passive voice is bad” is a better rule than “passive voice is good.” ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/11 "2022-11-17T14:18:59Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > They read somewhere (probably freaking Strunk and White, the worst writing manual ever) that the active voice is exciting and breaks through brick walls at superspeed, and the passive voice gives people head colds and constipation. So, compromise: use the passive voice, but italicize random words and put an exclamation point at the end. Excitement city! ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/12 "2022-11-17T14:23:07Z")
Grammar checking software is sort of in a bind with that. In the entire body of all written work in the English language, active voice is preferable in most sentences. There are situations, though, where passive is not just all right but a better choice. My hot take on it is not to use passive voice unless you have a reason for it that you could explain to someone. In any case, software isn’t capable of understanding context, so it either has to flag everything that appears to be passive or nothing. That’s not the only thing the software isn’t sophisticated enough to understand. One time I had a copyediting job where the author was talking about battleships with “six gun turrets.” No, Word, it’s not “six-gun turrets.” The ship has multiple gun turrets, and if you count them, the answer is six. But I see why it wanted the hyphen. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/13 "2022-11-17T14:26:04Z")
> [@dirtball](#): > > My hot take on it is not to use passive voice unless you have a reason for it that you could explain to someone. My broad take is don’t give people general rules on active or passive voice. Just explain which is which. If someone brings you a specific work to critique then point out why active or passive voice is better in that specific context. In other words, my broad rule is the inverse of yours: Don’t tell people that either active or passive voice is better unless you are critiquing a specific piece of writing. It’s like saying “Writing in English is better than writing in Welsh, because way more people speak English.” That may be completely wrong advice for any particular piece of writing. So, just refrain from the broad rule in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![dirtball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dirtball/32/18772_2.png) [@dirtball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dirtball)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/14 "2022-11-17T14:29:46Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > In other words, my broad rule is the inverse of yours: Don’t tell people that either active or passive voice is better unless you are critiquing a specific piece of writing. Yeah, I get what you’re saying, and I agree. I’m not going to proactively try to impose rules. I was speaking from the point of view of someone who gets asked for such critiques. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/15 "2022-11-17T14:57:29Z")
Sure, passive voice definitely has its place, but sometimes an “are you sure you want to use passive voice?” reminder is good. Someitmes I catch myself in a work email saying something like “this is done” and change it to “I completed this”. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/16 "2022-11-17T17:20:19Z")
Passive voice blows chunks. I used to talk that way and it sucks. We’ve got eternity more or less to be a birth date and a death date on a tombstone or whatever. Only a short time to be alive. Embrace life and be actively involved. I’m fine with passive voice having to justify its every instance of being used. That is better. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/17 "2022-11-17T17:30:48Z")
Agreed: If it’s good enough for Will, it’s fine for me. _“Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this sun of York.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/18 "2022-11-17T21:27:44Z")
I generally have to edit my writing to convert passive voice to active voice. I believe these edits usually improve clarity. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/19 "2022-11-17T21:28:58Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > “Now is the winter of our discontent made glorious summer by this sun of York.” Aces! ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2022, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077/20 "2022-11-17T21:29:26Z")
Shouldn’t the thread title be “MS Word and everyone else: the Passive Voice should not be Defamed”? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microsoft-word-and-everyone-else-stop-defaming-passive-voice/975077.md?page=2)