# microwaves **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [August 2, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033 "2002-08-02T16:30:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![bobschw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecae2f/32.png) [@bobschw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobschw)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/1 "2002-08-02T16:30:05Z")
Years ago before safety was invented we used microwave energy to stick plastic to plastic by heating the plastic just to its melting point. No shielding. We found out that when the generator was running, we could hold a fluorescent bulb near it and the bulb would light. Further, after it was lit we could walk a considerable distance away from the generator and the bulb would remain lit. That’s probably why I am the way I am now. Really light up a room. Bob S. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/2 "2002-08-02T19:34:46Z")
In the column about microwaves and pacemakers – [Can a microwave oven cause a pacemaker to malfunction?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020802.html) Cecil says – > [@](#): > > a cellular telephone emits dangerous radiation ONLY MILLIMETERS FROM YOUR BRAIN!" You didn’t ask me to delve into that particular can of worms, though, and no way am I going to volunteer. So is having a cellular phone next to your head not as dangerous as we were lead to believe? Were we being fed faulty science in the matter? What is Cecil alluding to? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/3 "2002-08-02T20:46:48Z")
> [@](#): > > So is having a cellular phone next to your head not as dangerous as we were lead to believe? Depends on where you were being led to believe things. Here on the board, you would have been led to the conclusion that the only danger to cellular phones is that of being smacked by someone else in the theater when it rings in the middle of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2002, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/4 "2002-08-02T21:03:01Z")
As dangerous as you were led to believe – by what? Faulty science – what science? To my knowledge there is no reliable evidence of harm caused by cell phones. There have been studies for and against, and some have found a risk of cancer and other haven’t, and it all seems very very small. Some people claim to have been made ill by such phones, yet are there more such illnesses among cell phone users than among the general population? Cecil is alluding to the completely opinion-driven nature of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![akrako1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@akrako1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akrako1)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2002, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/5 "2002-08-04T19:42:26Z")
Certain studies indicate that cell phones are perfectly safe - just not for kids. Something that may hamper development is just fine for the developed? Hmm… I would love if someone had access to some of the studies done, and could post some info. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/6 "2002-08-05T12:37:55Z")
The thing that struck me about the microwave oven article was this bit: > [@](#): > > Deaf people have been known to pick up CB radio transmissions on their cochlear implants. Now as far as I am concerned, this is more than enough justification to buy a CB radio. Slow night, nothing to do? Go cruise around rich neighborhoods broadcasting, “Run outside right now and give the man in the car all the cash you have on you! This is important!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2002, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/7 "2002-08-05T18:35:31Z")
Ok, thanks for the answers! I’m thinking of reports sometime in the last year that cellular phones can cause illness, cancer, because the antenna was right next to your head. Use of headsets was recommended. I know a physics teacher who believes this, so what did I do but go out and buy one. I missed the threads discussing it, Chronos. Thanks for the heads-up. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 6, 2002, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/8 "2002-08-06T15:42:50Z")
The whole cellular phone thing actually got its start from power lines. Someone (probably an insurance company) made the observation that statistically people who live near high voltage lines tend to have a shorter lifespan than those who don’t. This led to a whole range of theories being produced on the subject. People started debating the healthiness of having electric fields running all through our bodies and around our neighborhoods, and heaven forbid we have these new fangled cell phone things that people hold RIGHT UP TO THEIR HEAD (yes, this dates back far enough that cell phones were a new thing). In the late 80’s and early 90’s things went absolutely nuts. Some people were making a lot of money carrying around field strength meters and writing fancy reports at a time when very little scientific research had been done on the subject. I remember a TV show (60 minutes I think) which showed a man with an electronics technician with a brain tumor exactly where he had been holding the cell phone to his head (which there was even some debate about, because the cell phone people said he was holding it with the antenna above his ear and the tumor was clearly below and behind his ear). Numerous school districts were requiring fields strength studies for nearby power lines. I recall at least one school was shut down until power lines could be moved to keep the field strength in the playground down to a “safe” level. Then the scientific studies started coming in, and they weren’t really finding anything. Occasionally a study would find something, but then another study would contradict it or the results would not be reproducible. A decade later, I still have yet to see conclusive proof that cell phones cause cancer, although you still see the occasional study that finds some sort of evidence towards this end in a small sample size or whatever. The long and short of it is that there’s no clear cause and effect relationship between cell phones and cancer. After 20 years of research, we’re right back where we started. People who live near high voltage lines still don’t live as long as people who don’t, and we really don’t know why. A college professor I had 15 years ago said that it could just be that people who live healthier lifestyles prefer not to live next to power lines. Maybe he’s right. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/9 "2002-08-08T02:24:12Z")
That’s the beauty of cancer. We know so little about what-all does and doesn’t contribute to ones chance of getting cancer, and it takes so long for a tumor to grow, that we can blame **anything.** “I had a burrito at Taco Bell 5 years ago, and now I have prostate cancer! The burrito must have given me cancer!” “I rode on airliners on business trips for several years, and now I have breast cancer! The repeated altitude changes must have given me cancer!” I’ve even heard one story that a woman successfully sued a streetcar company because she fell off a streetcar, landed in a prone position, and got breast cancer a few years later. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/10 "2002-08-08T12:25:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Someone (probably an insurance company) made the observation that statistically people who live near high voltage lines tend to have a shorter lifespan than those who don’t. I wasn’t aware this is the case. Got a cite for my edification? ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2002, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/microwaves/122033/11 "2002-08-08T17:33:40Z")
[http://hps.org/hpspublications/articles/powerlines.html](http://hps.org/hpspublications/articles/powerlines.html) > [@](#): > > Potential health concerns about power lines were first raised in a 1979 study which associated increased risk of childhood leukemia with residential proximity to power lines. Since that initial study, numerous other investigations have attempted but failed to clarify whether observed associations between electromagnetic fields (EMFs) and various health effects were causal or coincidental. This site has a lot of info about power frequency EMF, cell phones, and related issues: [http://www.nsc.org/issues/rad/nonioniz.htm](http://www.nsc.org/issues/rad/nonioniz.htm) You’ll find a lot of info like this which seems to show a very clear cause and effect relationship: [http://www.phy.bris.ac.uk/research/track\_analysis/limitsandeffects.htm](http://www.phy.bris.ac.uk/research/track_analysis/limitsandeffects.htm) This is why cecil doesn’t want to touch this one. There’s lots of contradictory info out there, and those on both sides of the fence are very much convinced they are right. Here’s one from the other side of the fence: [http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9610/31/powerlines/](http://www.cnn.com/HEALTH/9610/31/powerlines/) When I was in college in about 1987 or so, one of my professors devoted a class period to ethical issues related to electrical engineering. Among the other things we discussed, we spent quite a bit of time discussing the power line vs. decreased life expectancy issue. At that time, my professor told me that originally this all came about because someone noted a decreased life expectancy in people who live near power lines, probably around the late 60’s to early 70’s time frame. This observation was made well before the 1979 study about increased cancer risk, but most places I looked cite the 1979 study as the origin of this issue. I have some colleagues in the power industry who had basically the same impression that I had (that the issue was originally noticed because of decreased lifespan well prior to 1979) but I can’t find a cite anywhere online, so it’s quite possible the few of us were all a bit misinformed about it.