# Mid 70s Return of the King: Any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624 "2010-01-27T04:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/1 "2010-01-27T04:16:00Z")
At least, I think it was ROTK. I can’t remember. The Avatar business brought it back to me. IIRC, the movie was filmed with real people, and painted over. I am not a Tolkien fan, but I am curious if the movie was any good. So, was it? Thanks, hh ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/2 "2010-01-27T04:17:19Z")
God no. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/3 "2010-01-27T04:17:53Z")
[_Lord Of The Rings_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_(1978_film)), Ralph Bakshi-style. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/4 "2010-01-27T04:20:59Z")
You mean the [Bakshi](http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm) version. It was supposed to be part I of II. It encompassed all of the first book of the trilogy, and most of the second book. It wasn’t very good, didn’t go over well, and was never finished, although Rankin-Bass [took a shot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_of_the_King_%281980_film%29) at doing so later, in full animated form, and that was pretty godawful as well (the voice work was from Scooby Doo voice-actors, just to give you a feel for it). ETA: the RB version was musical, including that time-honored classic, “[Where There’s a Whip There’s a Way](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdXQJS3Yv0Y)”. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/5 "2010-01-27T04:23:33Z")
Ralph Bakshi made a “Lord of the Rings” movie that left off somewhere in the middle of “The Two Towers.” He never got around to a sequel that would complete the story. A few years later, Rankin-Bass (who had done a made-for-TV animated version of “The Hobbit”) did a made-for-TV cartoon of “Return of the King.” Neither the Bakshi nor the Rankin-Bass version was very good by any means, but there were moments of fun in both (like the Orcs singing “Where There’s A Whip, There’s a Way” in the Rankin-Bass “Return of the King”). ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/6 "2010-01-27T04:24:18Z")
I thought this was going to be about Elvis in Hawaii. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/7 "2010-01-27T04:27:52Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > God no. It wasn’t that bad! I can’t compare it to Hanna-Barbera’s _The Hobbit_, because I never saw it. I just couldn’t get past the Hanna-Barbera-ness of it. Bakshi’s effort had better animation. Now, that’s sure to raise some hackles. Nowadays people are used to very slick animation, anime, and CGI. Some consider rotoscoping ‘cheating’, but that was Backshi’s style, and I liked it – with some reservations, such as the appparent lack of effort in the battle scenes. Obviously the film did not live up to fans’ expectations. I get the impression that the fanboys (and -girls) expect every effort to be perfect in every way. Ain’t gonna happen. Though I have it on DVD, I haven’t watched it in a while; so I can’t be too specific as to where I thought it failed. I mentioned some of the animation, which was a bit haphazard for the orcs and whatnot. But the biggest thing that bothered me was the way it ended. Backshi got about halfway through the book(s), and then said ‘This war, like all wars, ended. The good guys won. La-de-da.’ It just ended way too abruptly. And left out the last half of the story. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/8 "2010-01-27T04:28:07Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Ralph Bakshi made a “Lord of the Rings” movie that left off somewhere in the middle of “The Two Towers.” He never got around to a sequel that would complete the story. > > A few years later, Rankin-Bass (who had done a made-for-TV animated version of “The Hobbit”) did a made-for-TV cartoon of “Return of the King.” > > Neither the Bakshi nor the Rankin-Bass version was very good by any means, but there were moments of fun in both (like the Orcs singing “Where There’s A Whip, There’s a Way” in the Rankin-Bass “Return of the King”). You had to mention “Where there’s a Whip, There’s a Way” didn’t you? But truth to tell, as soon as I saw the title of the thread, the song sprung out of my subconscious to haunt me again… ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/9 "2010-01-27T04:30:10Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > You had to mention “Where there’s a Whip, There’s a Way” didn’t you? But truth to tell, as soon as I saw the title of the thread, the song sprung out of my subconscious to haunt me again… From Bakshi’s: ‘Bread and breakfast in Isengard, _understand?_’ still pops into my head. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/10 "2010-01-27T04:32:19Z")
This one was actually Ralph Bakshi’s _Lord of the Rings_—although it actually includes the story from _Fellowship of the Ring_ and _The Two Towers_—from 1978. Reviews can be found [here](http://www.stomptokyo.com/movies/l/lord-of-the-rings-anim.html) and [here](http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_1978.aspx), among other places. And yes, much of the movie was produced via [rotoscoping](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotoscoping). A lot of animated works have done this, but few so brazenly (or badly) as Bakshi. The prologue isn’t even _rotoscoped_…just shot in silhouette, and/or high contrast. On the plus side, it features John Hurt as Aragorn. Unfortunately, he’s playing an Aragorn who’s not wearing any pants. Anyway, the version by Bakshi, the animator behind films like _Fritz the Cat, Wizards, Cool World_, and _Christmas in Tattertown_, should also be remembered as being different from the animated versions of _The Hobbit_ and _Return of the King_, which were produced by Rankin-Bass. Those two are admittedly cheesy in their own right, as well as musicals (!), but they have a hell of a lot more charm than the Bakshi version. All in all, not a good movie. Though if you’ve willingly seen _Plan 9 From Outer Space_, you might like it for the laughs you’ll get. Otherwise, your experience will be similar to siphoning kerosene with a silly straw. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/11 "2010-01-27T04:34:53Z")
I stand corrected on the other producers. Rankin-Bass. Not Hanna-Barbera. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/12 "2010-01-27T04:36:01Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Neither the Bakshi nor the Rankin-Bass version was very good by any means, but there were moments of fun in both (like the Orcs singing “Where There’s A Whip, There’s a Way” in the Rankin-Bass “Return of the King”). Heh, fair enough. It did have one [decent scene](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipvi1DhemhM). My brothers and I used to sing this when my Mom would make us do chores. I actually didn’t mind the animated Hobbit or ROTK too much, but I remember the acting and animation in the Bakshi LOTR as being almost unwatchable. And I was like…twelve when I saw it, so its not like I was coming at it with some ultra-sophisticated palate for such things. ---
**Author:** ![Bartman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@Bartman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bartman)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/13 "2010-01-27T04:36:35Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > God no. Right on the first response. But that is not to say it doesn’t have some certain charm. And as others have mentioned you will never forget “Where there’s a Whip, There’s a Way” no matter how hard you try. ---
**Author:** ![squeegee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/squeegee/32/14537_2.png) [@squeegee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/squeegee)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/14 "2010-01-27T04:48:32Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > It wasn’t that bad! Yes, I’m sorry, it was. Bad movies can have good moments, and yet remain bad. Some of Bakshi’s scenes were inspired, and Jackson’s later LOTR film paid homage (or ripped them off wholesale, whatever), including the scene with the hobbits hiding from the Black Rider in the Shire, the Black Riders stabbing the empty beds in Bree, Frodo’s first meeting Aragorn at the TSOTPP, probably others. All of which doesn’t make a good film, just good bits in a bad film. ---
**Author:** ![gladtobeblazed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@gladtobeblazed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gladtobeblazed)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/15 "2010-01-27T04:57:05Z")
I might never have become a Tolkien fan if it weren’t for The Hobbit and Return of the King. I watched those two when I was about 12 years old and I loved them. I sought out the books soon after. ---
**Author:** ![Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/face_intentionally_left_blank/32/288_2.png) [@Face\_Intentionally\_Left\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Face_Intentionally_Left_Blank)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/16 "2010-01-27T05:02:41Z")
> [@Ranchoth](#): > > Anyway, the version by Bakshi, the animator behind films like _Fritz the Cat, Wizards, Cool World_, and _Christmas in Tattertown_, should also be remembered as being different from the animated versions of _The Hobbit_ and _Return of the King_, which were produced by Rankin-Bass. Those two are admittedly cheesy in their own right, as well as musicals (!), but they have a hell of a lot more charm than the Bakshi version. > . See how opinions vary? I \*\*liked \*\*the Bakshi version, but I couldn’t make it thru the Rankin-Bass musical drek. I realize that Bakshi’s LOTR wasn’t what he wanted it to be, but I thought what he did with the rotoscoping was suitably creepy, and was a hell of a lot more interesting than the Saturday morning cartoon style of the other two. I wish he’d had the budget he needed to make the version he wanted, but I still liked it. When I found it on VHS in the early 90’s, I had to buy it on the spot. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/17 "2010-01-27T06:31:09Z")
The cartoon Hobbit wasn’t actually that bad. I did have an issue with two of the songs, though. First, _There and Back Again_ was by no means the Greatest Adventure that’d Ever been Told. _Lord of the Rings_ was greater, and the greatest adventure in Middle-Earth was probably Beren and Luthien going to recover one of the Silmarils from the Iron Crown of Morgoth. Second, it really bugged me that they actually came up with a decent tune for “Far over Misty Mountains cold”, but then went and had Gandalf narrate most of it, instead of singing it. And even if you absolutely must narrate it, shouldn’t it be Thorin, not Gandalf? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/18 "2010-01-27T06:58:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Second, it really bugged me that they actually came up with a decent tune for “Far over Misty Mountains cold”, but then went and had Gandalf narrate most of it, instead of singing it. And even if you absolutely must narrate it, shouldn’t it be Thorin, not Gandalf? Ooo, but John Huston intoning the arrival of Smaug sent chills down my back when I was in elementary school. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/19 "2010-01-27T10:53:13Z")
THE HOBBIT was pretty much an acclaimed TV event & IIRC got pretty good reviews at the time. Bakshi’s LOTR was a big disappointment to fans & critics alike, as was ROTK but until Jackson, that was still all we had. I will say that the cartoon ROTK did have some good moments which stand out to me- Sam’s brief holding of the Ring, in which he was tempted to wield its power & rejected that temptation, and Frodo’s “I do not choose to do that which I have come to do.” I was 18 at the time & that was CHILLING! It’s just 90 minutes! Give it a try! Actually, the whole thing is on Youtube! ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/20 "2010-01-27T11:10:26Z")
I own the animated _Hobbit_, but I’ll never watch Bakshi’s drek again, which should tell you my opinion. Oddly enough, I really like _Wizards_, though. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624.md?page=2)