# Mid 70s Return of the King: Any good? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 27, 2010, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624 "2010-01-27T04:16:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/21 "2010-01-27T11:11:55Z")
When I was a kid this was magnificent, how can you not love those songs. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pekjIobj0A) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/22 "2010-01-27T16:07:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The cartoon Hobbit wasn’t actually that bad. I did have an issue with two of the songs, though. First, _There and Back Again_ was by no means the Greatest Adventure that’d Ever been Told. _Lord of the Rings_ was greater, and the greatest adventure in Middle-Earth was probably Beren and Luthien going to recover one of the Silmarils from the Iron Crown of Morgoth.? Now you’ve done it… The biggest problem with that song isn’t the “The greatest adventure” part. It’s the bit about how being a dreamer, not focusing on plain, practical stuff is _bad_ directly contradicts the entire message of the book and movie: \*..the man who’s a dreamer And never takes heed(?) Who thinks of a world that is just make-believe Will never know passion Will never know pain Will sit by the window and someday see rain(??) \* Um…at the start of the story, Bilbo doesn’t think of a world beyond his front door. He’s _not_ a dreamer. It takes the events of the book to wake him up and let him feel passion/pain. I don’t k now if he ever sat by the window and someday saw rain or if that’s a good or bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/23 "2010-01-27T22:22:05Z")
What the book actually said is one thing, and what its longhair fans of the late sixties interpreted/read into it could be quite another thing. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/24 "2010-01-28T00:34:58Z")
For a full-on review of the entire film, describing why it is or isn’t great, you can’t beat this website: [Review of Bakshi’s LOTR](http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm) Funny, funny stuff. I had forgotten about it until this thread, and now I have to read it all over again. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/25 "2010-01-28T01:23:22Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Bakshi’s effort had better animation. Now, that’s sure to raise some hackles. Nowadays people are used to very slick animation, anime, and CGI. Some consider rotoscoping ‘cheating’, but that was Backshi’s style, and I liked it – with some reservations, such as the appparent lack of effort in the battle scenes. I’m sure Bakshi had better animation. It’s hard not to be better than Rankin-Bass. But that didn’t mean it was _good_ animation. Backshi’s animation never rose any higher than mediocre (though bombastic). ---
**Author:** ![Chimpsmack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Chimpsmack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimpsmack)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/26 "2010-01-28T01:27:23Z")
i’ve seen the RB RotK better than a dozen times. it was pretty hit and miss, but the voice acting was very well done imo (particularly by orson bean, jon huston, mcdowell and whoever did eowyn), and there were several scenes in the rankin-bass RotK that i felt were far superior to their counterparts in the PJ movie (even if only by virtue of leaving the source material unchanged), especially the crucial moments in the siege on minas tirith. for example, the scene where gandalf waits to confront the witch king as grond smashes through the gates; gandalf unsure but steadfast, the witch-king riding in full of contempt and arrogance. imo, it’s the single scene that shows more than any other how dire the situation at minas tirith had become - had that cock not crowed, the battle may have ended immediately, as no one, not even gandalf himself, expected that he would be able to drive off the witch-king (in the cartoon, anyway). the scene was cut from the PJ movie, and after watching it in the dvd extras, really seemed to lack in comparison also the scene in which eowyn slays the witch-king and avenges theoden - imo, a masterfully written section of a masterpiece, and the rankin-bass adaptation has the benefit of leaving tolkein’s dialogue untouched. the PJ scene cuts most of the dialogue, and changes _‘But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund’s daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I shall smite you if you touch him.’_ to the totally underwhelming \*‘I am no man!’ \* i think in comparison the scene really suffers as a result of the change. YMMV, but because of that, given the choice between the cartoon and the movie i’d probably rather watch the cartoon. i’m also generally a fan of ralph bakshi - i like parts of most of his work. i just watched his Lord of the Rings again last week. like a lot of his work, he doesnt get it all quite right, and it’s in the running for my least favorite bakshi movie, but i dont think its unwatchable by any means. of course, i’m a sucker for the sort of trippy rotoscoping effects used in some of the sequences, so YMMV on that too ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/27 "2010-01-28T14:34:53Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > For a full-on review of the entire film, describing why it is or isn’t great, you can’t beat this website: > > [Review of Bakshi’s LOTR](http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm) > > Funny, funny stuff. I had forgotten about it until this thread, and now I have to read it all over again. Dang! Someone beat me to this link! :mad: Seriously though; I sortof grew up with the Rankin Bass stuff, and to this day I don’t mind it, for all its ridiculous cheese (in much the same way that people who grew up with Star Blazers or Speed Racer or the like can still watch them, and those of us who didn’t find them physically painful.). I saw the Bakshi film once on a rental, sometime around the age of 10 or 12, and for many years felt the only cool parts were the parts that I couldn’t understand. The film was a train wreck, the animation was terrible (say what you like about the Rankin Bass productions, but at least the animation was A) Vaguely consistent, and B) A whole lot less 70s in style than the Bakshi’s stuff.) and, well… heck, just read the link above. It says it better than I ever could. I also tend to agree with **Chimpsmack** and others that the strongest point of both Rankin Bass productions is when they use dialogue verbatim from the books (Note: This is frequently the case in the Peter Jackson films as well. Though not always. _cough_GlowingGreenGaladriel_Cough_) - including the Eowyn and Gandalf scenes mentioned, and also a good deal of Denethor’s dialogue. ---
**Author:** ![HorseloverFat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8e8cbc/32.png) [@HorseloverFat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HorseloverFat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/28 "2010-01-28T15:36:14Z")
Bakshi’s version is at least watchable, especially for kids. I dont know a lot about the history of Bakshi’s production, but there seems to be a point where they ran out of money and it shows. I mean, its not very good, but its not horribly unwatchable like Zardoz or anything. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/29 "2010-01-28T15:39:25Z")
I have to admit that I liked the Bakshi version. It was certainly not without its flaws (one or two of them), but at the time I was starving for a film version of the story, and I had a choice between that or nothing. (Or the horrible horrible cartoon version of RotK.) Yes, some parts were very silly. For instance, at the pass of Caradhras (sp?), Gandalf talks about how Aruman’s [sic] arm has grown long. When he does this he makes a claw hand for just a little too long. It reminded me of a scene from Cheers where a crazy guy says “Do you ever imagine that you have a claw?” Just silly. And yes, Galadriel looks a little too much like a 70s pop singer. And the balrog was downright cuddly. But parts of it were great, and I preferred some of the scenes over those of PJ’s. I thought that Sam was perfect. The flight to the ford was awesome. Gimli was played for more than just comic effect. The score was great. (Anyone notice that Rosenman reused some of it in Star Trek IV?) Gollum was well done. In the Rankin-Bass Hobbit, why oh why did Legolas’s dad have to sound like Hans and/or Franz? ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/30 "2010-01-28T15:48:46Z")
Surfed around and found this which while somewhat off topic is pretty dang funny: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU&feature=fvw](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yqVD0swvWU&feature=fvw) ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/31 "2010-01-28T16:02:26Z")
Gollum did do a good job. Apparently so good that the guys who did the INFINITELY BETTER THAN ANY OF THE FILMS BBC Radio Play production a couple of years later got the same fellow (and the same guy for Boromir as well.). As for the Bakshi being watchable, well, I suggest you check it again if you haven’t seen it in a few years. The terribleness of it can be dulled by time. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Sparky\_the\_Wonder\_Spirit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky_the_Wonder_Spirit)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624/32 "2010-01-28T16:12:08Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > For a full-on review of the entire film, describing why it is or isn’t great, you can’t beat this website: > > [Review of Bakshi’s LOTR](http://flyingmoose.org/tolksarc/bakshi/bakshi.htm) > > Funny, funny stuff. I had forgotten about it until this thread, and now I have to read it all over again. I don’t know, I’m partial to [The Agony Booth’s](http://www.agonybooth.com/recaps/The_Lord_of_the_Rings_1978.aspx) review, myself. Both reviews are FAR more entertaining than the actual movie. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-70s-return-of-the-king-any-good/526624.md?page=1)