# Mid-air collision at Dallas air show (Breaking news: Nov 12. 2022) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** breaking-news\ **Created:** [November 12, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812 "2022-11-12T21:17:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/1 "2022-11-12T21:17:30Z")
“A Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress and a Bell P-63 Kingcobra collided and crashed at the Wings Over Dallas airshow around 1:20 p.m. on Saturday, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.” > **[Vintage military aircraft collide mid-air at Dallas air show | CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/12/us/dallas-air-show-collision/index.html)** > > A Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress and a Bell P-63 Kingcobra collided and crashed at the Wings Over Dallas airshow around 1:20 p.m. on Saturday, according to the Federal Aviation Administration. As a layman having seen one of the videos of the collision it doesn’t look like a survivable incident for anyone on either plane! At least it appears they didn’t crash into spectators! ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/2 "2022-11-12T21:26:25Z")
The tag “Breaking News” has a grim irony for this thread. 😟 ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/3 "2022-11-12T21:33:25Z")
Twitter view, spoilered [https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1591522149512073217](https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1591522149512073217) Looks like the P63 collided right behind the wing and sheared off the rear fuselage and tail of the B-17 at low altitude. I am pretty sure the B-17 lost was “Texas Raiders”. I toured it as an Aviation Explorer many years ago at Hobby Airport and even have a pic, somewhere, of myself looking out from the tail gunner’s position. I think it also appeared in an anti-litter commercial and always did the one-wheel pass at the big CAF airshows. A sucky way to lose two rare aircraft and their crews. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/4 "2022-11-12T21:41:40Z")
That P-63 looked like an anti-aircraft missile. This may not be the right thread, but… I don’t understand why people insist on flying these museum pieces. Pretty soon, they will all be gone, due to these constant crashes. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/5 "2022-11-12T21:51:08Z")
I had a flashback to the [Ramstein disaster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramstein_air_show_disaster) and though it’s tragic, I’m glad that no spectators and bystanders were harmed this time. Having watched the twitter video, I can’t understand the mess of coordination this took to happen. ---
**Author:** ![txtumbleweed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@txtumbleweed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/txtumbleweed)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/6 "2022-11-12T22:03:25Z")
Another angle from twitter: [https://twitter.com/DavidSFOX4/status/1591522623376211968](https://twitter.com/DavidSFOX4/status/1591522623376211968) It looks like the P63 was third in a line of fighters turning in, two turn in a lot tighter and then the KingCobra comes in a bit wider (though that could be an illusion with the B-17 getting closer). The location doesn’t feel right for any of them to be on final and none have gear down. I wonder what if this was part of the Pearl Harbor simulation. Add another view (imagine going to be lots of video). There are lots of aircraft in the air. [https://twitter.com/JasonWhitely/status/1591541681798668291](https://twitter.com/JasonWhitely/status/1591541681798668291) ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/7 "2022-11-12T22:27:00Z")
> [@txtumbleweed](#): > > Add another view (imagine going to be lots of video). There are lots of aircraft in the air. > > [https://twitter.com/JasonWhitely/status/1591541681798668291](https://twitter.com/JasonWhitely/status/1591541681798668291) From this angle, it almost looks deliberate to this absolute layperson. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/8 "2022-11-12T23:54:00Z")
It looks to me like the impact of the collision tore the wings structure from the fuselage completely. The 2 parts then impacted separately. I didn’t think that was possible. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/9 "2022-11-12T23:59:09Z")
When I’ve seen air shows they seemed to fly in very strictly separated, regular, disciplined-looking patterns. The sky just before the collision looks like there were planes all over the place flying in every which way. That looked very strange for a demonstration show. Has anyone else seen an air show like that? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/10 "2022-11-13T00:00:12Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > That P-63 looked like an anti-aircraft missile. > > This may not be the right thread, but… I don’t understand why people insist on flying these museum pieces. Pretty soon, they will all be gone, due to these constant crashes. Not all surviving B-17’s are in flyable condition. Some are static museum displays. People who love these airplanes also love to see them flying. The ethics of whether or not to fly them is a hotly debated topic in relevant circles. ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/11 "2022-11-12T22:02:41Z")
Doesn’t look good. Video of the Kingcobra diving (apparently) into the fuselage of the B-17 during a flyover. Footage of the ground wreckage is pretty grim. Fox link has more bystander video, live news link at the NBC link (at least when I posted). Links: > **[MID-AIR COLLISION: Airshow disaster caught on video as planes crash into each...](https://www.foxnews.com/us/dallas-airshow-disaster-caught-video-planes-collide-mid-air)** > > Two planes in Texas collided in midair during the Commemorative Air Force air event at Dallas Executive Airport on Saturday afternoon. > **[6 Dead After 2 Planes Crash Mid-Flight During Airshow in Dallas, Victims...](https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/plane-crash-during-air-show-at-dallas-executive-airport/3123720/)** > > During the annual Wings Over Dallas show, two planes, including a B-17 and a P-63, collided mid-air, killing six. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/12 "2022-11-12T22:10:48Z")
Current Thread: > [@Mid-air collision at Dallas air show (Breaking news: Nov 12. 2022)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812): > > “A Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress and a Bell P-63 Kingcobra collided and crashed at the Wings Over Dallas airshow around 1:20 p.m. on Saturday, according to the Federal Aviation Administration.” As a layman having seen one of the videos of the collision it doesn’t look like a survivable incident for anyone on either plane! At least it appears they didn’t crash into spectators! ---
**Author:** ![pullin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c57346/32.png) [@pullin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pullin)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/13 "2022-11-12T22:38:16Z")
Oops my mistake. I looked in MPSIMS and not anywhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2022, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/14 "2022-11-12T23:56:46Z")
@pullin, do you want me to merge the 2 threads or just lock this one? ETA: I’ll lock it pending your response. You can PM me. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/15 "2022-11-13T00:04:38Z")
I merged the threads and moved them to MPSIMS. That’s where breaking news threads general belong, and these were both breaking news threads ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/16 "2022-11-13T00:16:16Z")
Damn. I feel for the pilots and the passengers; but it’s a horrible loss of historic aircraft. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/17 "2022-11-13T00:17:20Z")
I mean if there’s only a single living example than yeah they shouldn’t fly but there are a ton of museums with grounded B-17s to check out so losing one in the air isn’t crippling to aviation history overall. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/18 "2022-11-13T00:23:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > From this angle, it almost looks deliberate to this absolute layperson. I agree. At the very least, it seems massive negligence by the P63 pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/19 "2022-11-13T00:23:09Z")
Bad year for airshows. This sucks. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2022, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812/20 "2022-11-13T01:01:59Z")
6 dead. > **[Dallas air show crash: Six dead after two planes collide, NTSB says](https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/dallas-plane-crash-dallas-executive-airport-rbd/287-1d54f7a6-05ad-40ee-a02b-961874c52bea)** > > The Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress and a Bell P-63 Kingcobra collided and crashed around 1:20 p.m., the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) said in a statement. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mid-air-collision-at-dallas-air-show-breaking-news-nov-12-2022/974812.md?page=2)