# Middle America **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 13, 2019, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823 "2019-12-13T20:58:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/21 "2019-12-14T22:22:57Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I think you have a disproportionate amount of power due to the way the Senate and the Electoral College are structured and that this must be rectified. I think California’s 55 electoral votes give it a disproportionate amount of clout, since that’s more than 10% of the total needed to elect a President, and more than 14 states combined. Maybe we can rectify that by breaking up California. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/22 "2019-12-14T22:43:35Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > And a lot of people in Middle America dismiss the rest of the country. There’s an attitude among many of them that people in Middle America are “Real Americans” and are therefore entitled to better treatment than all of the other people who happen to live in a country that they feel should belong to them. > > I have no problem dismissing that attitude. I feel every American, regardless of where he or she lives in this country, is entitled to the same treatment. This. I here this type of attitude from Trump voters about the “coastal elites” more frequently than the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/23 "2019-12-14T22:46:55Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I think California’s 55 electoral votes give it a disproportionate amount of clout, since that’s more than 10% of the total needed to elect a President, and more than 14 states combined. Maybe we can rectify that by breaking up California. What would the population of those 14 states be, and what is California’s population? “It’s still we the people, right?” -Dave ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2019, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/24 "2019-12-14T23:53:46Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I think California’s 55 electoral votes give it a disproportionate amount of clout, since that’s more than 10% of the total needed to elect a President, and more than 14 states combined. Maybe we can rectify that by breaking up California. Those 14 states combined have less than a third of California’s population, but control 28 senators to California’s two, and 47 electoral votes to California’s 55. The vote of one Californian therefore is worth significantly less on a federal scale than that of a Wyoman. ---
**Author:** ![Sterling\_Archer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Sterling\_Archer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterling_Archer)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/25 "2019-12-15T00:36:27Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I think California’s 55 electoral votes give it a disproportionate amount of clout, since that’s more than 10% of the total needed to elect a President, and more than 14 states combined. Maybe we can rectify that by breaking up California. Breaking up California would give it MORE clout, since it would get 2 additional electoral votes for each way you divide it. Maybe a few of the northern states would go red, but the majority of the population, and thus electoral votes would still go blue. North and South Dakota are two separate states largely because of those extra 2 electoral votes and senators they got out of the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/26 "2019-12-15T01:46:29Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I think California’s 55 electoral votes give it a disproportionate amount of clout, since that’s more than 10% of the total needed to elect a President, and more than 14 states combined. Maybe we can rectify that by breaking up California. More than 10% of the population lives in California. Seems about right. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/27 "2019-12-15T01:54:01Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > I think you have a disproportionate amount of power due to the way the Senate and the Electoral College are structured and that this must be rectified. Sounds like folks need to start working on an amendment. Let me know when it’s finished and when the small states choose to give up power and sovereignty. It’s possible but unlikely and far from a must. > [@leahcim](#): > > I think it goes even farther than that. Certain sectors of “middle America” make the idea of down-home folksy people who are just morally better than the big city folk part of their cultural identity. The cities are decadent, cut-throat, and crime-ridden, while small towns are wholesome and caring. > > [Cracked](https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/) said it best: > > Western culture has a very long-running theme of, “the cities are evil and rural people are just better”. It’s not just western culture who have demonstrated a dislike of the elites and/or urban areas. Class warfare is a dangerous thing to unleash. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/28 "2019-12-15T02:14:33Z")
> [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > This. I here this type of attitude from Trump voters about the “coastal elites” more frequently than the other way around. That’s because the “coastal elites” simply dismiss middle America as irrelevant, something that [Pete Buttigieg is trying to exploit.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pete-buttigieg-2020-press-conference-after-announcing-running-for-president-today-live-stream/) > [@](#): > > I’m the only one living a middle-class lifestyle, in a middle-class neighborhood, in Middle America. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/29 "2019-12-15T05:45:55Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > Western culture has a very long-running theme of, “the cities are evil and rural people are just better”. Go to a bookstore or a record store (assuming you can still find one) and look for the section labeled “urban”. It’s a codeword for black. Same thing when people talk about how bad “the inner city” is. They’re talking about race not geography. That’s the American version. Apparently when Europeans talk about the problems of “urban people” they’re talking about Jews. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/30 "2019-12-15T06:12:18Z")
Haven’t a lot of them shifted their contempt towards Muslims? Not that its an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/31 "2019-12-15T08:00:37Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > . Apparently when Europeans talk about the problems of “urban people” they’re talking about Jews. Eh? Even as comic exaggeration that’s way off the mark. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/32 "2019-12-15T08:02:49Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sounds like folks need to start working on an amendment. Let me know when it’s finished and when the small states choose to give up power and sovereignty. It’s possible but unlikely and far from a must. We’ll just work it into Reconstruction after we win that “second Civil War” the MAGA-heads are always threatening to start. ---
**Author:** ![ataraxy22](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ataraxy22/32/307_2.png) [@ataraxy22](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ataraxy22)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/33 "2019-12-15T11:42:43Z")
And what are their “concerns” exactly? Oh nos, too many brown peeples? ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 12:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/34 "2019-12-15T12:00:04Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > Eh? Even as comic exaggeration that’s way off the mark. Historically, there’s something to LittleNemo’s observation, but nowadays there is a wider variety of “urban” types for Brexiteers/LePenistas/etc. to despise. In Indonesia in the 60s, it was citizens of Chinese descent who were despised as too urban, too smart, too worldly, too economically comfortable, too likely to be godless commies. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/35 "2019-12-15T13:11:09Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Sounds like folks need to start working on an amendment. Let me know when it’s finished and when the small states choose to give up power and sovereignty. It’s possible but unlikely and far from a must. Give up what “power and sovereignty?” We just want to revise [eliminate] the Electoral College, not abolish the Senate. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/36 "2019-12-15T14:24:19Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > That’s because the “coastal elites” simply dismiss middle America as irrelevant, something that [Pete Buttigieg is trying to exploit.](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/pete-buttigieg-2020-press-conference-after-announcing-running-for-president-today-live-stream/) What, by holding fundraisers hosted by billionaires who nearly destroyed our economy in 2008, and tech billionaires who want to destroy teachers’ unions and replace public schools with charters? Not to mention, who are these coastal elites that dismiss Middle America as irrelevant? While they’ve certainly stepped up their game since Trump won, stories about WWC angst have been a MSM staple since the 1980s at least. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/37 "2019-12-15T14:54:56Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > I think California’s 55 electoral votes give it a disproportionate amount of clout, since that’s more than 10% of the total needed to elect a President, and more than 14 states combined. Maybe we can rectify that by breaking up California. [off-topic] It’s sometimes said that if California were divided into six states, four of them would be Red. I’ve just re-checked the numbers and _That simply is not true._ You can divide California into several states — almost as many as you like! — _all with very comfortable Blue majorities_, and with very straightforward, compact, non-gerrymander-looking boundaries. Maps dividing California into red/blue counties or precincts are extremely misleading because most of the red areas are mountainous regions with extremely low population density. The redneck votes of mountainous California would be drowned out by Sacramento and Sonoma Counties. Throw in Marin County for a blue landslide. BTW, note that Humboldt County voted for Clinton by almost a 2-to-1 margin! Coastal elites? 😛 In the south, the R votes in the Central Valley (Bakersfield etc.) would be drowned out by Santa Barbara, Ventura, and San Bernardino Counties. (Note that Fresno County voted for Clinton.) What will it take for this break-up? Fifty Senators and California going along? I propose a Federation of the resultant Northifornia and Southifornia States so these fine new states can share a Governor and get other economies of scale! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/38 "2019-12-15T16:04:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Haven’t a lot of them shifted their contempt towards Muslims? Not that its an improvement. I thought they had different code words for Muslims. But I’ll admit I may be behind on current trends in European xenophobia. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/39 "2019-12-15T22:41:01Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > What, by holding fundraisers hosted by billionaires who nearly destroyed our economy in 2008, and tech billionaires who want to destroy teachers’ unions and replace public schools with charters? > > Not to mention, who are these coastal elites that dismiss Middle America as irrelevant? While they’ve certainly stepped up their game since Trump won, stories about WWC angst have been a MSM staple since the 1980s at least. > [@ataraxy22](#): > > And what are their “concerns” exactly? Oh nos, too many brown peeples? First off, I said Buttagieg was trying to exploit the sentiment, not that he himself was a gen-you-wine Middle American. If you want a few “Middle American” concerns that don’t have anything to do with skin color, try these: 1. The collapse of blue-collar industries that have been sent overseas. 2. The WalMartization of retailing and the death of small town retailing 3. Consolidation of the farming industry 4. Lack of healthcare outside of anywhere except large cities 5. Infrastructure 6. Education, drug abuse, teenage pregnancy and all those other pesky social problems that some people seem to think only exist in cities. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2019, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823/40 "2019-12-15T23:25:29Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > First off, I said Buttagieg was trying to exploit the sentiment, not that he himself was a gen-you-wine Middle American. > > If you want a few “Middle American” concerns that don’t have anything to do with skin color, try these: > > 1. The collapse of blue-collar industries that have been sent overseas. > > 2. The WalMartization of retailing and the death of small town retailing > > 3. Consolidation of the farming industry > > 4. Lack of healthcare outside of anywhere except large cities > > 5. Infrastructure > > 6. Education, drug abuse, teenage pregnancy and all those other pesky social problems that some people seem to think only exist in cities. 1. Not skin color (Well sort of) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-america/844823.md?page=3)