# Middle Dutch transl. Q. Difficulty: moderate-hard (babelfishers, do not apply) **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 23, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870 "2007-07-23T18:29:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/1 "2007-07-23T18:29:41Z")
Ok, I’ve run into a phrase, ordering someone to so something physically. 16th century, probably around Utrecht. In context: “Nu leeset X pater noster ende gaet te rugge, soe veer alstu mogeste leesen een ave maria, ende denke, hoe xpristus weder genc na den iersten gebede tot sinen iongeren; so ganc du oec ende. . .” Now aside from a lack of punctuation and the great 16th c spelling. . . ‘gaan te rugge’. This isn’t still in use is it? Walk backwards? (or just walk back? The end of the section suggests that to me-- I think the reader is to follow the model) Fall supine? Any thoughts? ---
**Author:** ![sinjin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@sinjin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sinjin)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/2 "2007-07-23T19:14:20Z")
I don’t even think that’s Dutch. There’s this [great translation resource](http://babelfish.altavista.com) and it gives > [@great translation resource](#): > > Now leeset X pater noster ende gaet at rugge, soe feather alstu mogeste leesen a ave maria, ende denke, how xpristus weder genc after pine iersten gebede to sinen iongeren; so ganc du oec ende Have you considered that it’s actually a cipher? I tried a few things I picked up in Digital Fortress and came up with Made you look! =) I know a guy who speaks Dutch, I’ll forward this to him and see if he has any input. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/3 "2007-07-23T19:49:52Z")
[QUOTE=capybara] Ok, I’ve run into a phrase, ordering someone to so something physically. 16th century, probably around Utrecht. In context: “Nu leeset X pater noster ende gaet te rugge, soe veer alstu mogeste leesen een ave maria, ende denke, hoe xpristus weder genc na den iersten gebede tot sinen iongeren; so ganc du oec ende. . .” [/QUOTE] I’m not fluent in Dutch, but I think it’s a penance being handed out by a priest at confession. Now read 10 Pater Nosters and go back [don’t understand] you must/should/may also read one Ave Maria and think how Christ\* [something] gave his first command to his disciples; [something something] and… “xp” greek letters Chi Rho. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/4 "2007-07-23T19:55:22Z")
[QUOTE=capybara] “Nu leeset X pater noster ende gaet te rugge, soe veer alstu mogeste leesen een ave maria, ende denke, hoe xpristus weder genc na den iersten gebede tot sinen iongeren; so ganc du oec ende. . .” [/QUOTE] If it get’s any older you can’t call it dutch anymore 🙂 Now read 10 holy fathers and go back, as often as you want a hail mary, and think how christ again went after the first prayer to his youngers, so you go to your end. the translation ‘gaet te rugge’ : literally it means ‘goes to back’ as in ‘_back_pack’. but in dutch we also use ‘terug’ which means ‘back’ as in 'he went _back_ ’ ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/5 "2007-07-23T20:00:01Z")
[QUOTE=The Librarian] If it get’s any older you can’t call it dutch anymore 🙂 Now read 10 holy fathers and go back, as often as you want a hail mary, and think how christ again went after the first prayer to his youngers, so you go to your end. the translation ‘gaet te rugge’ : literally it means ‘goes to back’ as in ‘_back_pack’. but in dutch we also use ‘terug’ which means ‘back’ as in 'he went _back_ ’ [/QUOTE] As I noted above, I’m fairly sure that “iongeren”=“jongeren” = “apostles” or “disciples”. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/6 "2007-07-23T20:05:40Z")
[QUOTE=Spectre of Pithecanthropus] As I noted above, I’m fairly sure that “iongeren”=“jongeren” = “apostles” or “disciples”. [/QUOTE] I agree but I didn’t read your post before submitting. I think I would understand it completely if I knew what ‘so ganc du oec ende’ means. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/7 "2007-07-23T20:07:19Z")
Yes, yes, thank you, all-- but the main problem is the ‘te rugge’ phrase-- I wasn’t sure whether it was just ‘terug’ or some other idiom. (To fill in the other mysteries, it’s instructions on how to do a set of prayers about JC in Gethsemane) Sinjin, I liked your answer-- it gave me some ideas, so I actually recorded and played it backwards at 45 RPM and it turns out it’s a recipe for low-cal hollandaise. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/8 "2007-07-23T20:09:20Z")
[QUOTE=capybara] Yes, yes, thank you, all-- but the main problem is the ‘te rugge’ phrase-- I wasn’t sure whether it was just ‘terug’ or some other idiom. (To fill in the other mysteries, it’s instructions on how to do a set of prayers about JC in Gethsemane) Sinjin, I liked your answer-- it gave me some ideas, so I actually recorded and played it backwards at 45 RPM and it turns out it’s a recipe for low-cal hollandaise. [/QUOTE] Pretty cool considering it is a french sauce ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/9 "2007-07-23T20:09:51Z")
Ah, and Librarian, I truncated it-- ende. . .[‘so you go back, too, AND go say this other prayer’]. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/10 "2007-07-23T20:12:55Z")
Ok, and sorry to multipost, can we work on this ‘gaan te rugge’ a bit more-- as a Dutch native does it suggest “go back”, “walk backwards”, “get on your back” or what? You suggest simple 'go back", right? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Librarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_librarian/32/402_2.png) [@The\_Librarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Librarian)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/11 "2007-07-24T08:54:26Z")
[QUOTE=capybara] Ok, and sorry to multipost, can we work on this ‘gaan te rugge’ a bit more-- as a Dutch native does it suggest “go back”, “walk backwards”, “get on your back” or what? You suggest simple 'go back", right? Thanks! [/QUOTE] yup; ‘go back’ ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2007, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-dutch-transl-q-difficulty-moderate-hard-babelfishers-do-not-apply/412870/12 "2007-07-24T12:45:43Z")
“terug” is “back” in Afrikaans, too. “gaan terug” would be “go back” here, but it often gets dialectalized/accented to “gaat” rather than “gaan” “oec” would probably be “ook” in Afrikaans, and means “also”