# Middle Earth FA63 D&D Game, the Second Adventure, Scouting Ered Lithui **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Tags:** middle-earth-game\ **Created:** [April 5, 2008, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049 "2008-04-05T05:30:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/41 "2008-04-07T12:40:26Z")
Renee has some ideas on the dilemma, “I think I should shadow Ghân most of the time and leave Deor free to move around. Fang will know where we are, if we are near and Ghân can develop some hand signals to have Fang points us out to him. When we are horsed, it is no issue. As soon as Deor attacks, he will turn visible. Missy, can and will take care of herself. She will even be able to warn me if Deor very is close or any other invisibles for that matter. I have no ranged attacks, in fact I have no attacks accept against the restless dead. So, if I stay near a party member or at least Fang and avoid the enemies as I plan to, I should stay out of the way of friendly fire. I think it is important to remember I am a nearly complete non-combatant. On the ten day journey, Ghân cast 3 Goodberry spells. Renee lent her help with a small song to Estë as Ghân cast. The first spell produced five magic berries, the second made six, and the third made seven for 18 berries. The following night, together they made 21 berries and 21 every night thereafter for 207 berries. The night you spent near the labor camp, she requested that Ghân load and then cast a Plant Growth to start the growth of a large variety of healing herbs and a dozen lemon trees for the health of the prisoners and guards. She also healed 15 of the workers and 1 guard. She used mainly healing knowledge and herbs but also three of her cure lights. On this day we plan to separate, Caramir asks a boon of Ghân, “Could you possible provide us with the 21 freshest Goodberries? They should last 4 days for us and be of great help.” ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/42 "2008-04-07T13:26:53Z")
Brin will listen intently to Starharp’s lessons on hand signals…for the first hour. He will offer the signals he’s used previously in his duty with the Dale Guard. After about an hour of the Elf’s lesson, his mind will start to wander off to thoughts of home and worries that he might never make it back. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/43 "2008-04-07T13:33:32Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Brin will listen intently to Starharp’s lessons on hand signals…for the first hour. He will offer the signals he’s used previously in his duty with the Dale Guard. After about an hour of the Elf’s lesson, his mind will start to wander off to thoughts of home and worries that he might never make it back. [/QUOTE] Do you mind if I sit in as well? If I am going to be moving about up front in close conditions with you two, it might be useful to know what signals you are using. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/44 "2008-04-07T13:39:43Z")
[QUOTE=CatInASuit] Do you mind if I sit in as well? If I am going to be moving about up front in close conditions with you two, it might be useful to know what signals you are using. [/QUOTE] You do know Starharp will be leading the discussion? The introductions alone will take half an hour, and that is just because we already know each other. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/45 "2008-04-07T13:49:07Z")
Hey, c’mon. He’s not an Ent, after all. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/46 "2008-04-07T14:11:00Z")
True. That’s why I said half an hour versus half a day. Mal should back second breakfast, lunch, and second lunch. Besides, Brin still doesn’t believe Ents (nor Tom Bombadil should his name ever come up) exist. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/47 "2008-04-07T16:34:45Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] Brin will listen intently to Starharp’s lessons on hand signals…for the first hour. He will offer the signals he’s used previously in his duty with the Dale Guard. After about an hour of the Elf’s lesson, his mind will start to wander off to thoughts of home and worries that he might never make it back. [/QUOTE] An hour? From prior experience, anything a Human hasn’t grasped in five minutes is probably not worth persisting with. Besides, he has to allow for the fact that most Humans can’t tell a sparrow from a finch a hundred yards off. 😛 > [@Elendil's Heir](#): > > Thoroncir warmly thanks the Elf-captain for sharing his music. The pleasure is all mine. Such moments of peace and pleasant society should be enjoyed and enhanced however possible. On the first evening when our party is camping by itself, Gil-Gandel retunes his harp and plays some gentle arpeggios reminiscent of the bells in the high towers of Minas Tirith. If Thoroncir has any ear for music, he may notice that the notes interweave as in change-ringing between one verse and the next of the following: Hear thou, Eternal Kindler[sup]1[/sup] of the Stars Who ever dwellst in hallowed courts of light - The home of hope for every elven heart Beyond the furthest shores of endless sea - Gone is the flame of Arien[sup]2[/sup] from the world And earthly souls compose themselves to rest. Grant us, we pray, a night’s refreshing rest Who here look on thy white eternal stars That shine in pity on the troubled world And wash it in their cool redeeming light From mountain tall to ever-changing sea; From desert strand to forest’s verdant heart. Ease doubts and cares that daunt the weary heart; Courage but grant, and we will do the rest To serve this land - still fair - beyond the Sea Where woke the Elves of old beneath thy stars To seek (yet knew not what they sought!) the Light Of Trees that grew beyond the mortal world. Those Trees, forever gone from all the world! Of sadness how to sing that fills my heart? For never now shall I behold that light Which graced the Valar’s blessed land of rest; Living yet only in the Evening Star[sup]3[/sup] - Earendil’s ship upon his heavenly Sea. But there are many lights we yet may see That bring your joy and promise to the world; Great deeds of hope and faith, which like the stars Strengthen the will and glad the sorrowed heart; For which we now prepare to take our rest, So on the morrow we may serve the Light. Come, blessed one! until the day’s new light Calm you our thoughts, reposeless like the sea; Grant unto care-worn minds and hands that rest Dreams of thy land all fair beyond the world; Banish our gloom, console the sick at heart, And let us sleep in bliss beneath thy stars. So ever send thy light upon the world; In realms beyond the sea thy loving heart Be moved to grant us rest, Queen of the Stars. [sup]1[/sup]Elbereth, or _Varda_ in Quenya: the Vala of the Stars [sup]2[/sup]The Maia who drives the Sun; hence, the Sun itself, personified. [sup]3[/sup]After the Two Trees were destroyed by Morgoth and Ungoliant, their light survived only in the Silmarils, which at the end of the First Age were sundered, and so remain: one lost in the bowels of the Earth, one in the deeps of the Sea, and one upon Earendil’s ship Vingilot which still sails the skies as the Evening Star, and therefore shines with the last trace of the Light that was before the Sun and the Moon. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/48 "2008-04-07T17:37:52Z")
Thoroncir has an ear for music, but no particular skill at producing it. By the flickering light of the campfire, as the sweet chords die away, he quietly says, “Many thanks again, Gil-Gandel, good friend and gallant captain. That was beautiful. May we all accomplish ‘great deeds of hope and faith.’” ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/49 "2008-04-07T17:44:55Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Renee has some ideas on the dilemma, “I think I should shadow Ghân most of the time and leave Deor free to move around. Fang will know where we are, if we are near and Ghân can develop some hand signals to have Fang points us out to him. When we are horsed, it is no issue. As soon as Deor attacks, he will turn visible. Missy, can and will take care of herself. She will even be able to warn me if Deor very is close or any other invisibles for that matter. I have no ranged attacks, in fact I have no attacks accept against the restless dead. So, if I stay near a party member or at least Fang and avoid the enemies as I plan to, I should stay out of the way of friendly fire. I think it is important to remember I am a nearly complete non-combatant. [/QUOTE] This makes a lot of sense- I’ll range around, while Renee stays near Ghan. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/50 "2008-04-07T18:17:01Z")
[QUOTE=appleciders] This makes a lot of sense- I’ll range around, while Renee stays near Ghan. [/QUOTE] Sorry, but this **doesn’t** make sense - now we have no idea where you are, e.g. what happens if our Fighters are firing missiles? How does your Fighter buddy know where you are? How do we tell the difference between you and an [COLOR=Blue]Invisible opponent?[/COLOR] [QUOTE=What Exit?] Renee has some ideas on the dilemma, “I think I should shadow Ghân most of the time and leave Deor free to move around. Fang will know where we are, if we are near and Ghân can develop some hand signals to have Fang points us out to him. When we are horsed, it is no issue. As soon as Deor attacks, he will turn visible. Missy, can and will take care of herself. She will even be able to warn me if Deor very is close or any other invisibles for that matter. I have no ranged attacks, in fact I have no attacks accept against the restless dead. So, if I stay near a party member or at least Fang and avoid the enemies as I plan to, I should stay out of the way of friendly fire. I think it is important to remember I am a nearly complete non-combatant. [/quote] Fang is supposed to be watching Ghân and protecting the other casters. He can hopefully spot anyone sneaking up on us. It is not a good idea to have Fang trying to keep track of Deor and Renee, then have Ghân watch Fang to see where the two invisible people are, then presumably have Ghân notify the party of where they are. Deor will only turn visible if he casts [COLOR=Blue]Sleep. Missy is another Invisible wandering around? Can she Detect Invisible? Can she tell the difference between Deor and a hostile Invisible? How does she warn the party? We understand Renee is largely defensive - so is Deor. There are still complications from having two (or three) Invisible members of the party, and the benefits seem unclear. Isn’t Renee protected both by her cloak and her class ability?[/COLOR] ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/51 "2008-04-07T19:24:28Z")
Renee is now confused, “What is the difference between one or two being invisible with you argument. Your argument is for none to be invisible.” She says, “Don’t worry about Missy, she can’t tell us much, but she will know where I am or if someone else is sneaking up on her. She will take care of herself quite well. If you are that worried about it being two of us invisible though, it is fine is Deor does not cast one on me.” ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/52 "2008-04-07T20:40:08Z")
Could we trust the animal familiars to keep us apprised of at least the _general_ locations of their two invisible spellcaster companions? As far as riding versus marching goes, I’m normally very much in favor of being mounted as often as possible (keep your jokes to yourselves), but I think going on foot will be safer and more prudent in this case. That, and I’d like an orc or two to feel the bite of this lovely sword. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/53 "2008-04-07T20:51:48Z")
Renee asks in response to the comment about the sword, "Do you have an Orc Slayer? Missy can tell where I am and if it is Deor or something else come near her but she would only be able to alert me." ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/54 "2008-04-07T21:01:32Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Renee asks in response to the comment about the sword, “Do you have an Orc Slayer?” [/QUOTE] **Theogrim** favors Renee with a rare smile and shrug. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/55 "2008-04-07T21:52:15Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Renee is now confused, “What is the difference between one or two being invisible with you argument. Your argument is for none to be invisible.” She says, “Don’t worry about Missy, she can’t tell us much, but she will know where I am or if someone else is sneaking up on her. She will take care of herself quite well. If you are that worried about it being two of us invisible though, it is fine is Deor does not cast one on me.” [/QUOTE] Ghân explains cheerfully: " **If precisely one of us is Invisible, then they can also see every other member of the party, and avoid bumping into them.** They can give us their intended location (e.g. two paces to Ghân’s left) and we know where to expect them. If we have to run, there’s only one Invisible to worry about. If we see a second Invisible person, we know it’s an enemy. Your kind offer to rely on your cloak and ability is most welcome." He adds “I didn’t consider this before, but if there is a spare Invisibilty, it could go on Brownie the Owl. He stays on my back asleep during the day, and will be a fine Guard at night.” ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/56 "2008-04-07T21:57:07Z")
[QUOTE=OneCentStamp] Could we trust the animal familiars to keep us apprised of at least the _general_ locations of their two invisible spellcaster companions? As far as riding versus marching goes, I’m normally very much in favor of being mounted as often as possible (keep your jokes to yourselves), but I think going on foot will be safer and more prudent in this case. That, and I’d like an orc or two to feel the bite of this lovely sword. [/QUOTE] The problem with relying on familiars is that we set up a long chain of communication: 1. Folca tells Ghân where Deor is 2. Missy tells Ghân where Renee is 3. Ghân tells everyone where Deor is 4. Ghân tells everyone where Renee is As for riding, I think it is more prudent to have horses available if we hit trouble. Do you want to carry a Fighter and his gear on your shoulder? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/57 "2008-04-07T22:02:07Z")
[QUOTE=glee] The problem with relying on familiars is that we set up a long chain of communication: 1. Folca tells Ghân where Deor is 2. Missy tells Ghân where Renee is 3. Ghân tells everyone where Deor is 4. Ghân tells everyone where Renee is As for riding, I think it is more prudent to have horses available if we hit trouble. Do you want to carry a Fighter and his gear on your shoulder? [/QUOTE] Agreed with the communication difficulties. If a teammate needs delivery from the field of combat, I will do everything I can to see to it. Remember, the person saying this is a tall (tallest of the group, I think), gangly kid. If you hadn’t learned better, you might think he’d be more a danger to himself wielding his weapons. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/58 "2008-04-07T22:58:58Z")
[QUOTE=D\_Odds] If a teammate needs delivery from the field of combat, I will do everything I can to see to it. [/QUOTE] You are generous to offer, but (no matter who carries) we will be slowed and the carrier will not be ready to fight if we are ambushed… (In case it’s not clear, I mean we march, but the mounts are available…) ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2008, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/59 "2008-04-07T23:48:20Z")
[QUOTE=glee] He adds “I didn’t consider this before, but if there is a spare Invisibilty, it could go on Brownie the Owl. He stays on my back asleep during the day, and will be a fine Guard at night.” [/QUOTE] Brownie can certainly be Invisible. I’ll get right on that. As to the issue of Invisible party members: I’m not as worried. Renee can stay two paces to your left, I’ll stay ten to the right. I’m not going to be fighting much more than Renee will. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2008, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049/60 "2008-04-08T01:54:53Z")
[QUOTE=appleciders] Brownie can certainly be Invisible. I’ll get right on that. As to the issue of Invisible party members: I’m not as worried. Renee can stay two paces to your left, I’ll stay ten to the right. I’m not going to be fighting much more than Renee will. [/QUOTE] I appreciate the help for Brownie, but please reread everything I wrote why you and Renee should not both be invisible. The ‘two paces’ comment was just an illustration of how precisely **one** invisible person can work with a party. Please think about how the party and two or more Invisible people are supposed to cope when: - we are marching in the open - we are trying to hide - we are under missile fire and are firing back - we are under spell attack and are trying to spread out - we are under melee attack and are trying to defend the casters - we are threatened by an invisible opponent - we are attacking - we are chasing - we are fleeing - we are passing through obstacles - one of our Invisible people has been Held - one of our Invisible people has been poisoned [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/middle-earth-fa63-d-d-game-the-second-adventure-scouting-ered-lithui/444049.md?page=4)