# Midnight Restaurant Customers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 1, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012 "2008-10-01T16:03:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/21 "2008-10-01T17:56:41Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > I love all of gods children exactly the same and not a day goes by that I do not have my breath taken away with gratitude and awe at the diverse rainbow of humanity in which I live. > > However… it is not racist to observe that people of African decent (as a group) tend not to tip as well as people of European decent. It is just observing reality based on experience. Well part of it may be they get worse service, aren’t as aware of tipping norms, etc. It’s not because they are black. It’s probably somewhat of a cultural thing. > **[Study shows blacks tip less -- but they may have good reason](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-mar-26-tr-insider26-story.html)** > > African American diners asked about the disparity cited economics, upbringing and expectations. But if you like anecdotal evidence so much, here’s an anecdote. I worked at a pizza delivery joint in high school and part of college. I was an inside worker, I did not deliver. One night a couple of our drivers were AWOL and we were having problems with messed up/late delivery orders. My boss was freaking out and desperate so he sent me on a delivery, a run-back order. These people should have gotten their pizza like an hour ago. So I take the delivery. A black guy answers the door. $5 tip on top of overpriced pizza and a fuck-up on our part. Not some swanky neighborhood either, pretty nice in a well-kept sense but definitely middle-class. And the guy was really nice. I was wearing sauce-splatted clothes and looked gross too. So, in my experience, black people tip great! ---
**Author:** ![Binarydrone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3da27b/32.png) [@Binarydrone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Binarydrone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/22 "2008-10-01T18:02:05Z")
Sure, but unless I misread the cite above we have established that this is not, in fact, anecdotal evidence. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/23 "2008-10-01T18:08:01Z")
> [@Binarydrone](#): > > Sure, but unless I misread the cite above we have established that this is not, in fact, anecdotal evidence. I meant the “if you like anecdotal evidence so much” thing more in general. Mainly because the OP’s whole assertion came from 3 subjects eating between the hours of midnight-4am…most people don’t do that anyway. And most restaurants that are open those hours are crappy like Dennys so why would anyone expect 30% tips? ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/24 "2008-10-01T18:10:05Z")
> [@myskepticsight](#): > > Yeah you doomed yourself by making it a race thing. Does it REALLY matter what race these people were? When I delivered pizzas our bad tippers were Russians and Indians. Is “russian immigrant” a race? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/25 "2008-10-01T18:10:11Z")
> [@photopat](#): > > Chez Paul can get pretty ugly after 11. I want to buy your women. The little girl, your daughters . . . sell them to me. Sell me your children. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/26 "2008-10-01T18:19:22Z")
> [@myskepticsight](#): > > I meant the “if you like anecdotal evidence so much” thing more in general. Mainly because the OP’s whole assertion came from 3 subjects eating between the hours of midnight-4am…most people don’t do that anyway. And most restaurants that are open those hours are crappy like Dennys so why would anyone expect 30% tips? What assertion of the OP’s are you referring to? I read over it twice, and all I see him doing is restating his personal experiences. I didn’t see him make any general assertions, or attempt to make any assertions based on his personal experiences at the restaurant in question. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/27 "2008-10-01T18:21:17Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > What assertion of the OP’s are you referring to? I read over it twice, and all I see him doing is restating his personal experiences. I didn’t see him make any general assertions, or attempt to make any assertions based on his personal experiences at the restaurant in question. Well I inferred that the fact the OP bothered to explicitly state the races of the customers meant something. It is not common to phrase every sentence with the race of the person unless it’s important to the point the speaker is making. ---
**Author:** ![Rilchiam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@Rilchiam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rilchiam)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/28 "2008-10-01T18:34:46Z")
Perhaps he just wanted to give a physical description. You know, to set the scene. He also said the city itself was ethnically mixed. People are different races, you know. In America. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/29 "2008-10-01T18:42:01Z")
Well clearly the OP is a racist scumbag and should be lynched. ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/30 "2008-10-01T18:44:47Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Perhaps he just wanted to give a physical description. You know, to set the scene. He also said the city itself was ethnically mixed. > > People are different races, you know. In America. Yes, I am aware of this. I live in America. In an ethnically mixed city. But from all the times everyone has heard “blacks don’t tip blah blah blah” it’s not very hard to connect that popular sentiment with stories like these. I’m not calling the OP a racist, but sometimes it’s not necessary to explicitly identify traits like race - we’re all just people. To me, in a story like the OPs about people not tipping, identifying the race of the customers has absolutely nothing to do with the story unless you are trying to say, however covertly, that the race of the people in the story is integral. I just think it’s a tired argument, however true it might be. Unless you are someone who has to work for tips, why the hell do you care? Just tip as you see fit and get on with your life. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/31 "2008-10-01T18:59:48Z")
> [@Rilchiam](#): > > Perhaps he just wanted to give a physical description. You know, to set the scene. It was a sultry night. A quiet hush fell on the city. The alluring scent of barbeque sauce hung thick in the air. An African-American couple walked into the restaurant, where only four other people, two of them homeless, were sitting quietly. The couple sat at a booth, over which hung a framed print of ducks. The couple perused the entrees. He was in the mood for a burger and fries. His lovely wife of 26, concerned with her appearance, ordered a salad. But it was a large salad. The husband wondered silently if she was just fooling herself, as she doused the enormous bowl of vegetation with creamy Italian. The couple ate in angry silence, having fought over expenses earlier that day. The husband wanted to buy a giant screen TV. The wife wanted a trip to the Poconos. They could not afford both. As they finished up, they decided that it would be a good idea to order two full meals to-go. The husband tipped 12 cents. TWELVE FUCKING CENTS. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/32 "2008-10-01T19:11:09Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Talking with the staff people, NO ONE wants to work those shifts. Tips suck ass. One spoke about having groups of 9, 12 and 14 in one night, and making a total of $25 in tips for the eight hours. I hope that in cases like this, management makes up the difference between $2.13 + tips and minimum wage ($6.55/hr) like they’re supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/33 "2008-10-01T19:26:54Z")
Free eggs is a dish best served cold. _–Ancient waiter’s proverb_ ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/34 "2008-10-01T19:31:38Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It was a sultry night. A quiet hush fell on the city. The alluring scent of barbeque sauce hung thick in the air. An African-American couple walked into the restaurant, where only four other people, two of them homeless, were sitting quietly. The couple sat at a booth, over which hung a framed print of ducks. The couple perused the entrees. He was in the mood for a burger and fries. His lovely wife of 26, concerned with her appearance, ordered a salad. But it was a large salad. The husband wondered silently if she was just fooling herself, as she doused the enormous bowl of vegetation with creamy Italian. > > The couple ate in angry silence, having fought over expenses earlier that day. The husband wanted to buy a giant screen TV. The wife wanted a trip to the Poconos. They could not afford both. > > As they finished up, they decided that it would be a good idea to order two full meals to-go. The husband tipped 12 cents. TWELVE FUCKING CENTS. Bravo! ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/35 "2008-10-01T19:48:35Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I hope that in cases like this, management makes up the difference between $2.13 + tips and minimum wage ($6.55/hr) like they’re supposed to. I honestly don’t think they do. The staff talk about how they’re little more than cheap labor because they also have to clean the place, vacuum and fold napkins, etcetera while they’re not busy. As for the race thing, it’s part of my job to take detailed descriptions and while I used to never note race, I got corrected too many times and now it’s always “white female”, “black male”, “Uranian Slorbofart”. It, very unfortunately, is a part of the lingo of the job. But if you have to focus on percieved flaws in the other person’s presentation (as all too many people on this board are wont to do when it comes to race, weight, etc), then all you’re really trying to do is divert and subvert the conversation. You’re not actually discussing the issues. (Rather, you’re only feeding your own desire for false drama and outrage.) ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/36 "2008-10-01T19:54:56Z")
> [@myskepticsight](#): > > Well part of it may be they get worse service, aren’t as aware of tipping norms, etc. It’s not because they are black. It’s probably somewhat of a cultural thing. > > [Study shows blacks tip less -- but they may have good reason](http://articles.latimes.com/2006/mar/26/travel/tr-insider26) From the article:\* "She also sounded another common theme: Some African Americans base gratuities strictly on how they’re treated. “Our expectations of service may be higher,” she said. Bell, who travels and eats out frequently as sales auditor for an auto manufacturer, later tipped less than 15% because she was unhappy with the service. A few tables away, Renee Davis, a black graphic designer, said, “A lot of white guys try to impress the table [with a big tip]. I’m not interested in impressing the table.”\* There you go, OP: The customers you’re ranting about are not cheap - they’re earnest about elevating the level of service and not making phony attempts to impress others. These are laudable sentiments, and I may have to incorporate them into my own tipping rationale. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/37 "2008-10-01T20:04:54Z")
> [@Merijeek](#): > > Is “russian immigrant” a race? > > -Joe No, but \*rushing immigrants \*is. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/38 "2008-10-01T20:06:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > There you go, OP: The customers you’re ranting about are not cheap - they’re earnest about elevating the level of service and not making phony attempts to impress others. I call Bullshit. Say what you want, but screwing the person after the fact does nothing to get you better service during the event. And since I tip well even when alone, who the fuck am I supposed to be impressing? Then again, if you walk into any place with a chip on your shoulder and act paranoid, unpleasant and confrontational, complaints that the other party is acting according to the precepts of your chip aren’t entirely rational or believable. (Whether that chip be racism, sexism, weight issues or any other percieved slight) Some people are so intent on staring at their personal chips (demons) that they’re unable to interface with the world in any other terms. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/39 "2008-10-01T20:08:38Z")
In America, you rush Brotherhoods in college. In Russia, Brotherhood rushes YOU! ---
**Author:** ![myskepticsight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@myskepticsight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/myskepticsight)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012/40 "2008-10-01T20:11:06Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > I honestly don’t think they do. The staff talk about how they’re little more than cheap labor because they also have to clean the place, vacuum and fold napkins, etcetera while they’re not busy. > > As for the race thing, it’s part of my job to take detailed descriptions and while I used to never note race, I got corrected too many times and now it’s always “white female”, “black male”, “Uranian Slorbofart”. It, very unfortunately, is a part of the lingo of the job. > > But if you have to focus on percieved flaws in the other person’s presentation (as all too many people on this board are wont to do when it comes to race, weight, etc), then all you’re really trying to do is divert and subvert the conversation. You’re not actually discussing the issues. (Rather, you’re only feeding your own desire for false drama and outrage.) I’m not outraged, I’m exasperated. While I live in an ethnically diverse city there is still a lot of overt and covert racism. It pisses me off for a few reasons: it’s wrong, it’s ignorant, it’s unnecessary, and it gives way to even more stereotypes and racism (white people hate black people etc). And the way your OP was crafted to me sounded like the race actually _mattered_ to what you were saying, not just a bland descriptor. Because like I said, most people don’t bother to use those descriptors unless it’s relevant to something they are saying. And I’m pretty sure it’s illegal for employers of people who make 2.13 or whatever and tips to not compensate when the employee makes less than minimum wage. They need to be reported by the employees if this is happening. And every friend I’ve had who worked in places like Steak n Shake etc, everyone had to do “side work” in addition to waiting tables like folding napkins, refilling condiments, cleaning and so on. Seems to be part of the job at crappy restaurants. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midnight-restaurant-customers/466012.md?page=3)