# Midterm Election Strategy: Isn't Firing Up the Base Supposed To Be the Key? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 17, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805 "2006-03-17T20:47:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/21 "2006-03-18T14:36:02Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > I am a progressive Republican (where is the Bull-Moose party when we need it? ☹ ) As much as I am disgusted with the movement of my party to the Ultra-Right, it’s still better than the people the Democrats put up. Do tell. So what you’re saying is, a bunch of incompetent college cronies, with an astounding and constant display of corruption (and indictments/conviction), lying and incompetence are the better choice? And the only way to deal with the UltraRight is to remove the politicians who feed at their trough. > [@SaintCad](#): > > Slick Willie? Remember the self-serving hour-long speech he gave at the the DNC when introducing the real nominee 4 years before he ran? I knew he was an immoral bastard back _before_ he became President. I’m not going to get into a should he have been impeached (yes) or convicted (no) discussion - but let’s just say that when I found out he was getting blow jobs from interns and committing perjury to grand juries, my only response was, “I took this long?!” Uh huh. Getting the knob polished is far far worse than the lying and cherry picking of already manipulated data to start personal wars of choice. Hidihg the salami is far more evil than illegal detentions without trial, torture, illegal spying, and leaving an entire city flapping in the wind. Everything can be explained away with “I didn’t know” or “nobody could have foreseen”. My Pet Goat. Deja Vu all over again. Self serving speeches by Willy, or self contradicting speeches that always revolve around someone else helping the terrorists (paranoia or manipulation?). All dissent is “almost” treasonous. Got it. > [@SaintCad](#): > > Al Gore? At least he invented the internet. The intellectual type that comes across as “I’m better than you.” that Americans love to hate. Might have been a decent President if we never had a crisis, but thank God he was not in the Oval Office during the Columbia Disaster and 9/11. At least some sandpipers would have had nice beaches to run on. He never said that. It was part of a campaign to make him look stupid. "Even IF Gore came across as “I’m smarter than you”, that is a hell of a lot less offensive than “you’re a librul commie God hating freedom hating traitor”. > [@SaintCad](#): > > John Kerry? Tax everyone and give it to everyone else (I think). Actually, I’m not sure what his politics were beyond “Republicans are evil.”, “Republicans will overturn _Roe v. Wade_.”, “Republicans will make poor people eat their children as a low-cost alternative to turkey at Thanksgiving.”, etc. It especially bothered me that he was the Demos’ _second_ choice once they realized Howard Dean was utterly insane. Tax everyone except the oil companies - they are getting another tax break, in the face of record profits. Roe? South Dakota. Other states following suit. Texas Republican platform clearly stating it is against abortion of all sorts and for any reason. What was that again?? UltraRights ARE hoping to get Roe overturned. UltraRights issuing “resolutions” about christianity (which particular brand anyway) becoming some sort of official religion (southern states mostly). > [@SaintCad](#): > > But the reality is that voting for President anymore is like deciding whether or not you want to be poked in the left eye or the right one. Now THAT I can agree with. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/22 "2006-03-18T14:39:57Z")
> [@HPL](#): > > I agree with what many have said here. > > The democrats need to > > 1.) Grow some Balls > > and > > 2.) Show what their agenda is. > > Because so far they seem to have neither. Hell, The democrats can’t even get behind a resolution to censure Bush for things they generally agree he’s done wrong. > > In the last election, I didn’t vote for Bush or Kerry. I didn’t like Bush, but Kerry gave me no reason to vote FOR him. I keep hearing that he had a plan, but it usally had something to do with directing us to his website. Fine and good, but could we at least have the bullet points in your speech? Could you at least tell us what you would do to fix Iraq? > > Give me some plan, any plan to judge. Democrats, stop being fucking pussies and show us that you can do more then criticize, that you can lead! Democrats need some balls, they are too willing to give in, they are too scared that if they DO something it will “energize” the Repulbican base. You don’t win any fight by just standing there getting hit. Republican (Bush) plan? He had none either. He never thought anything through, and the stock answers seem to be “stay the course” and “I’m protectiong you whether you like it or not - even if it breaks the law”. What plan? Nobody has a plan. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/23 "2006-03-18T15:09:48Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > I am a progressive Republican (where is the Bull-Moose party when we need it? ☹ ) . . . > > But the reality is that voting for President anymore is like deciding whether or not you want to be poked in the left eye or the right one. Want more alternatives? **Do** something about it! > **[A multiparty system is better than a two-party system!](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269169)** > > I have started, or contributed to, several GD threads about electoral reforms that would open the field in American politics to parties other than the Republicrats: “What do you think about proportional representation in the US House of Reps?” ... ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/24 "2006-03-18T15:20:35Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > So is this still the route to victory in a year like 2006? Why or why not? And if so, when are the Dems going to start doing stuff to fire up their base, so they can win in the fall? I think you always want to fire up the base, don’t you? The reason it can be especially important in the midterm elections is that voter turnout tends to be lighter. If the Dems can get all the voters out there who voted in '04, that would be a tremendous boost. But isn’t it still a bit early? I would suspect that once the primaries are over, that’s when you want to start rallying the masses. Then kick into high gear mid-late summer. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/25 "2006-03-18T15:42:23Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > But isn’t it still a bit early? I would suspect that once the primaries are over, that’s when you want to start rallying the masses. Then kick into high gear mid-late summer. Actually, here in Florida, the Congressional primary isn’t until September 5. ---
**Author:** ![Driver8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b5a626/32.png) [@Driver8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Driver8)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/26 "2006-03-18T16:10:06Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > The common man knows that high taxes, more regulation, and higher government spending is bad for him. Although, it is certainly valid to question the wisdom of voting for the GOP in the expectation of less government spending! And while I would vote in favor of smaller government in general, I think it is valid to question the intelligence of those who voted for the current administration simply based on the current administrations blind incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/27 "2006-03-18T16:36:27Z")
The question becomes, is firing up your base counterproductive in the general election? The “base” of either party tends to be those with more extreme views to the left or the right. I submit that a fired up Democratic base will elect candidates in the primaries who are the most left leaning, which is where their personal philosophies lie, but these candidates may in fact be less electable in the general election where they are seen as extremest, and rejected in favor of Republican candidates who are not as far to the right as these Democratic candidates may be to the left. I don’t know for sure if this is the case, but given the amount of wailing about how stupid John Q. Public was not to intuitively recognize the innate superiority of the liberal vision for America after the last election :rolleyes: , I think it’s something to consider. Many liberals rejected out of hand the notion that they were out of touch with the mainstream in favor of a "How can they be so idiotic as to reject what we tell them? We know we’re superior, what’s wrong with the electorate that they don’t?’ mentality. I’ve seen no lessening of this attitude in the interim, and in that attitude I see a continuation of recent Democratic failures at the polls. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/28 "2006-03-18T16:57:18Z")
> [@Renob](#): > > Really? It seems to be an article of faith among liberals that “the people” are idiots for liking Bush. See _What’s Wrong with Kansas_. Liberal Democrats have nothing but contempt for the common man since the common man refuses to listen to their exalted wisdom about whom he should support for public office. Well, considering how low Bush’s numbers are now, they don’t like him NOW, and pretty much for the same reasons that the rest of us thought they shouldn’t like him THEN, so forgive us if we continue to regard them as a little slow… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/29 "2006-03-18T18:24:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Want more alternatives? > > **Do** something about it! > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269169](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=269169) Gee . . . thanks mom. What makes you think I’m not doing something about it? Do you know how hard it is to get a new party started in California? It takes a lot of time, money, and support. (California Election Code 5100) So could you please forgive me for not getting a new political party started while drinking my morning coffee? > **[The Vermont Progressive Party](https://www.progressiveparty.org/)** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/30 "2006-03-18T18:49:48Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > Gee . . . thanks mom. What makes you think I’m not doing something about it? Do you know how hard it is to get a new party started in California? It takes a lot of time, money, and support. (California Election Code 5100) So could you please forgive me for not getting a new political party started while drinking my morning coffee? I beg your pardon. I’m not encouraging you to start a new third party. We already have **plenty** of those. They can’t get any traction because of our electoral laws, which effectively discriminate against all non-Republicrats, and because of the single-member-district system for electing legislators, which effectively forces anybody who wants to participate at all to huddle under one major-party “big tent” or the other. I am encouraging you – and every concerned citizen – to fight on **that** front. Wage war on the two-party system itself and everything that perpetuates it. Campaign to reform the system, to switch to instant-runoff voting (for single-office elections), proportional representation (for elections to multimember policymaking bodies), and ballot fusion (for all elections). > **[FairVote](https://www.fairvote.org/)** > > FairVote is a nonpartisan champion of electoral reforms that give voters greater choice, a stronger voice, and a representative democracy that works for all Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/31 "2006-03-19T23:31:15Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > _About Bill Clinton_ > Uh huh. Getting the knob polished is far far worse than the lying and cherry picking of already manipulated data to start personal wars of choice. Hidihg the salami is far more evil than illegal detentions without trial, torture, illegal spying, and leaving an entire city flapping in the wind. Everything can be explained away with “I didn’t know” or “nobody could have foreseen”. My Pet Goat. Deja Vu all over again. Self serving speeches by Willy, or self contradicting speeches that always revolve around someone else helping the terrorists (paranoia or manipulation?). All dissent is “almost” treasonous. Got it. I notice you convienently neglected the point of commiting perjury. You also neglected to address the point that these issues occured AFTER the election. My point on Slick Willie was that his peccadillos were know BEFORE the election, so unless you were psychic, no one would have known about the clusterfuck that is the Iraq War. > [@SteveG1](#): > > About Al Gore > He never said that. It was part of a campaign to make him look stupid. "Even IF Gore came across as “I’m smarter than you”, that is a hell of a lot less offensive than “you’re a librul commie God hating freedom hating traitor”. > [@CNN Late Edition](#): > > BLITZER: I want to get to some of the substance of domestic and international issues in a minute, but let’s just wrap up a little bit of the politics right now. > > Why should Democrats, looking at the Democratic nomination process, support you instead of Bill Bradley, a friend of yours, a former colleague in the Senate? What do you have to bring to this that he doesn’t necessarily bring to this process? > > GORE: Well, I will be offering – I’ll be offering my vision when my campaign begins. And it will be comprehensive and sweeping. And I hope that it will be compelling enough to draw people toward it. I feel that it will be. > > But it will emerge from my dialogue with the American people. I’ve traveled to every part of this country during the last six years. **During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet.** I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to our country’s economic growth and environmental protection, improvements in our educational system. OK you win - he didn’t invent the internet, he _created_ it. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/32 "2006-03-20T01:29:39Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > OK you win - he didn’t invent the internet, he _created_ it. He said he “took the initiative” in creating it, which, in fact, he did. > **[Al Gore](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_gore#The_Internet)** > > Albert Arnold Gore Jr. (born March 31, 1948) is an American politician and environmentalist who served as the 45th vice president of the United States from 1993 to 2001 under president Bill Clinton. Gore was the Democratic nominee for the 2000 presidential election, losing to George W. Bush in a very close race after a Florida recount. > Gore was an elected official for 24 years. He was a representative from Tennessee (1977–1985) and from 1985 to 1993 served as a senator from that state. He s... But he never claimed to be an engineer. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/33 "2006-03-20T05:53:46Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > He said he “took the initiative” in creating it, which, in fact, he did. > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al\_gore#The\_Internet](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_gore#The_Internet) > > But he never claimed to be an engineer. But still no comment on Clinton comitting perjury ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2006, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/34 "2006-03-20T15:50:31Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > But still no comment on Clinton comitting perjury I remember the perjury, and I also remember the “what is the meaning of IS” situation. He evaded. He equivocated. He avoided. He perjured. However, I don’t see any equivalence. None. His perjury was about a blowjob. This was at the end of a concerted effort by Star to get him. Banking investigations failed. Connecting the dots to supposed murders failed. Starr was sent to get Clinton, any way he could. It’s telling that the only dirt he found was something this relatively trivial. I wonder how many of our current “leaership” would be guilty of perjury, if we started having hearings Under Oath, instead of the current practice of not requiring anyone to tak an oath. Then, there is still the question of Libby and his current “problems”. So, forget Clinton, he is not relevant except in the most obscure way. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/35 "2006-03-21T00:28:41Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I remember the perjury, and I also remember the “what is the meaning of IS” situation. He evaded. He equivocated. He avoided. He perjured. However, I don’t see any equivalence. None. His perjury was about a blowjob. This was at the end of a concerted effort by Star to get him. Banking investigations failed. Connecting the dots to supposed murders failed. Starr was sent to get Clinton, any way he could. It’s telling that the only dirt he found was something this relatively trivial. I wonder how many of our current “leaership” would be guilty of perjury, if we started having hearings Under Oath, instead of the current practice of not requiring anyone to tak an oath. Then, there is still the question of Libby and his current “problems”. So, forget Clinton, he is not relevant except in the most obscure way. Actually it is quite relevant. This was the same behavior he demonstrated over the Gennifer Flowers issue **during the campaign**. That was my whole point - with Clinton we knew what we were getting before we elected him, with Bush it was after the fact. In fact that was the whole point of my discussion, that Demos don’t seem to be putting forth candidates with recognizable platforms other than “Republicans are bad” and that the three previous candidates have been virtually unelectable. Of course the same could be said for the Reps with Bush I and Dole more unelectable than Clinton, Bush II less unelectable than Kerry, and Bush II and Gore in a tie of unelecibility. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/36 "2006-03-21T00:56:00Z")
> [@SaintCad](#): > > Actually it is quite relevant. This was the same behavior he demonstrated over the Gennifer Flowers issue **during the campaign**. That was my whole point - with Clinton we knew what we were getting before we elected him, with Bush it was after the fact. > > In fact that was the whole point of my discussion, that Demos don’t seem to be putting forth candidates with recognizable platforms other than “Republicans are bad” and that the three previous candidates have been virtually unelectable. Of course the same could be said for the Reps with Bush I and Dole more unelectable than Clinton, Bush II less unelectable than Kerry, and Bush II and Gore in a tie of unelecibility. Fair enough, and you are probably right so far as my memory of the times goes. We seem to get some pretty sad “contenders”, some of whom you have to wonder, did they even want to win. It’s not getting any better either. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/37 "2006-03-21T01:08:32Z")
As much as you guys beat the drum about Diebold and allege that they fixed elections, what are you going to do when the Democrats take seats in this election? Will it be perfectly legit then, or will you demand recounts in close elections because the machines were “fixed”? Gooses/ganders and all that, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/38 "2006-03-21T01:12:41Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > As much as you guys beat the drum about Diebold and allege that they fixed elections, what are you going to do when the Democrats take seats in this election? Will it be perfectly legit then, or will you demand recounts in close elections because the machines were “fixed”? Dunno about anyone else, but I’ll still be demanding the removal of all unverifiable, paperless-trail electronic voting machines, regardless of who makes them or who benefits from them. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/39 "2006-03-21T01:26:44Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > As much as you guys beat the drum about Diebold and allege that they fixed elections, what are you going to do when the Democrats take seats in this election? Will it be perfectly legit then, or will you demand recounts in close elections because the machines were “fixed”? > > Gooses/ganders and all that, y’know? Not our responsibility to demand recounts if we win, but I hope we won’t dig in our heels if the Pubs demand recounts. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2006, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805/40 "2006-03-21T01:28:07Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > We seem to get some pretty sad “contenders”, some of whom you have to wonder, did they even want to win. I have a friend (prone to conspiracy theories) who is convinced it’s all a sham and Kerry didn’t even want to win – in fact, he was handpicked by the Powers That Be to lose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/midterm-election-strategy-isnt-firing-up-the-base-supposed-to-be-the-key/348805.md?page=3)