# Might BP p.l.c. yet be destroyed? \[edited title\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 17, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472 "2010-12-17T04:11:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/1 "2010-12-17T04:11:29Z")
[It looks as if under the Clean Water Act, British Petroleum may be fined up to $4,300 per barrel of oil spilled. Nearly 5 million barrels were spilled into the gulf, according to federal estimates.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/15/AR2010121503894.html) That adds up to quite a lot of billions of dollars right there, and clearly that is just the beginning. At what point does British Petroleum fold up and disincorporate? What does it take to wipe British Petroleum off the map? Similarly, what would it take to drive British Petroleum from US lands and waters? And, don’t you think this is proper and necessary, especially considering a world of future oil production decreases? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/2 "2010-12-17T04:18:12Z")
I suspect BP is diversified on paper so liability is limited. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/3 "2010-12-17T04:18:14Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > [It looks as if under the Clean Water Act, British Petroleum may be fined up to $4,300 per barrel of oil spilled. Nearly 5 million barrels were spilled into the gulf, according to federal estimates.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/15/AR2010121503894.html) > > That adds up to quite a lot of billions of dollars right there, and clearly that is just the beginning. At what point does British Petroleum fold up and disincorporate? What does it take to wipe British Petroleum off the map? Similarly, what would it take to drive British Petroleum from US lands and waters? And, don’t you think this is proper and necessary, especially considering a world of future oil production decreases? And the alternative is what, say that if you are a large company you can do whatever you want and not be responsible for the consequences? BP made a bet that they could produce oil at a particular cost, and that they were spending enough on safety measures to limit their exposure to damages that resulted from their operations. _They_ lost the bet. I, as a taxpayer, am not responsible for their debt. If they had won the bet they wouldn’t have thrown a few hundred extra billion dollars into the US Treasury. ETA: Now if the actual damages are less than the fine, I wouldn’t mind seeing the fine lowered to just cover the damages. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/4 "2010-12-17T09:36:55Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > [It looks as if under the Clean Water Act, British Petroleum may be fined up to $4,300 per barrel of oil spilled. Nearly 5 million barrels were spilled into the gulf, according to federal estimates.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/15/AR2010121503894.html) > > That adds up to quite a lot of billions of dollars right there, and clearly that is just the beginning. IIRC BP has already set aside $20Bn (maybe £20 Bn). ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/5 "2010-12-17T10:38:40Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > [It looks as if under the Clean Water Act, British Petroleum may be fined up to $4,300 per barrel of oil spilled. Nearly 5 million barrels were spilled into the gulf, according to federal estimates.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/15/AR2010121503894.html) > > That adds up to quite a lot of billions of dollars right there, and clearly that is just the beginning. At what point does British Petroleum fold up and disincorporate? What does it take to wipe British Petroleum off the map? Similarly, what would it take to drive British Petroleum from US lands and waters? And, don’t you think this is proper and necessary, especially considering a world of future oil production decreases? It’s not called British Petroleum, and hasn’t been for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/6 "2010-12-17T10:56:04Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > [It looks as if under the Clean Water Act, British Petroleum may be fined up to $4,300 per barrel of oil spilled. Nearly 5 million barrels were spilled into the gulf, according to federal estimates.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/15/AR2010121503894.html) > > That adds up to quite a lot of billions of dollars right there, and clearly that is just the beginning. At what point does British Petroleum fold up and disincorporate? What does it take to wipe British Petroleum off the map? Similarly, what would it take to drive British Petroleum from US lands and waters? And, don’t you think this is proper and necessary, especially considering a world of future oil production decreases? _British Petroleum_ again? didn’t we do all this with you a while ago? Your admitted prejudice in other threads doesn’t bode well for reasoned debate does it? ---
**Author:** ![Candyman74](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ad7895/32.png) [@Candyman74](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candyman74)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/7 "2010-12-17T13:10:47Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > _British Petroleum_ again? didn’t we do all this with you a while ago? > > Your admitted prejudice in other threads doesn’t bode well for reasoned debate does it? Ah, thanks - I didn’t notice who the OP was. At least I now know I can safely ignore the thread, and that his choice of naming convention is a deliberate provocation; and that reasoned debate will not be occuring here. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/8 "2010-12-17T13:21:02Z")
> [@Candyman74](#): > > Ah, thanks - I didn’t notice who the OP was. At least I now know I can safely ignore the thread, and that his choice of naming convention is a deliberate provocation; and that reasoned debate will not be occuring here. 🙂 Yup, thread over. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/9 "2010-12-17T14:55:31Z")
Gee sorry folks. I’ve seen estimates of some aspects of this action totaling over $40 billion, with the door open for more. I wonder how high it might go. And yes of course I would like to see um… BP go down. I wonder if it is a real possibility. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/10 "2010-12-17T15:03:50Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > And yes of course I would like to see um… BP go down. I’d rather see the company thrive. That way every penny of profit it makes can be sucked off for however long it takes to repair the environmental disaster, and to make whole all those financially damaged. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/11 "2010-12-17T15:23:28Z")
I don’t want to have to trust that they’ve changed and won’t do this again, and I’d rather not see the team that built BP continue to profit from the ‘thriving company’. I think a lot of people would see the undoing of the company as part of the compensation package. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/12 "2010-12-17T16:00:26Z")
Out of interest, did you hold the same views when Exxon ruined Alaska, or had your girlfriend not been cheating on you with an American at that time? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/13 "2010-12-17T17:23:50Z")
If we’re actually going to start punishing corporations for the actions of their employees, Blackwater/Xe should be much higher on the list. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/14 "2010-12-17T17:25:17Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Gee sorry folks. I’ve seen estimates of some aspects of this action totaling over $40 billion, with the door open for more. I wonder how high it might go. And yes of course I would like to see um… BP go down. I wonder if it is a real possibility. No. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/15 "2010-12-17T17:38:46Z")
In case anyone is wondering 5 million times $4,300 is 21.5 billion. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/16 "2010-12-17T18:13:37Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/17 "2010-12-18T02:07:23Z")
mod: In order to appease my critics and avoid the distraction, would you mind changing the name in the title to “BP p.l.c”? Thanks. I’d also like to take this opportunity to mention that the S in Harry Truman’s name doesn’t stand for anything. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/18 "2010-12-18T04:30:09Z")
> [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > _British Petroleum_ again? didn’t we do all this with you a while ago? > > Your admitted prejudice in other threads doesn’t bode well for reasoned debate does it? I suppose not. But look, I am not here to rant about Brits. I haven’t participated in the other live threads criticizing things British now have I? True, I admitted a prejudice that was precipitated by my anger, grief and probably also drunkenness brought on by the Deepwater disaster. But hey, no progress without intellectual honesty, right (excepting Repubicans of course)? > [@villa](#): > > Out of interest, did you hold the same views when Exxon ruined Alaska, or had your girlfriend not been cheating on you with an American at that time? I got upset about the Exxon spill, but not nearly so much. I was a schoolboy then, Alaska might as well have been the moon, and I didn’t really understand it. Now, well, I still have the same gf. I have to leave this to make her dinner now. And she ain’t into fish 'n chips. I suppose I can see why you’d want to attack me, I just think you should come up with something better. > [@Quartz](#): > > IIRC BP has already set aside $20Bn (maybe £20 Bn). > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In case anyone is wondering 5 million times $4,300 is 21.5 billion. My understanding is that the $21.5 billion is a penalty fine and does not apply to separate costs for the damages. The $20 billion they have already put aside is for the costs of the clean-up, reparations, etc., and may only be the first insallment. For example, how much would it really cost to vacuum all the oil from 10,000 square miles of sea floor? On top of that, I have heard that the $75 million limit in the Oil Pollution Act might be ignored, adding yet another multi-billion dollar fine. I don’t know if that’s true though and thought the 'dope would know. Plus state governments are suing BP p.l.c. separately from the Justice Department’s suit. Then a class-action suit, individual suits… I was kind of hoping the 'dope could help me sort out the facts, tally up all the suits and estimate the total potential damages. Then compare that to an estimate of how much BP p.l.c. can take, speculate on whether that might cause it to fold or if not, what effects it might have. Watching BP p.l.c. unravel would/will be a better show than watching the Gulf die, don’t you think? > [@JohnT](#): > > No. Really? How much do you estimate BP p.l.c. can take? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/19 "2010-12-18T07:40:00Z")
Look, I know the OP has an axe to grind with a certain British petroleum products company, and it’s probably a waste of time even mentioning this to him, but BP have branches in other countries where they’ve done nothing wrong. There’s precious little enough competition in the petrol market as it is (especially in Australia and NZ, where it’s basically BP/Shell/Caltex/Mobil) and having a major petrol company go under because the OP is mad at them is… unfair on the millions of people in Other Countries who would have to pay more for petrol (petrol that already costs them a fortune anyway), and the people working for BP in those Other Countries who would lose their jobs because of something they had nothing to do with. Now, if the OP wants the _American_ arm of BP to fail, that’s understandable (but still not something I agree with). But BP is a multinational company, and there’s no reason to punish everyone because of the problems of a few. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2010, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472/20 "2010-12-18T07:51:13Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Look, I know the OP has an axe to grind with a certain British petroleum products company, and it’s probably a waste of time even mentioning this to him, but BP have branches in other countries where they’ve done nothing wrong. > > There’s precious little enough competition in the petrol market as it is (especially in Australia and NZ, where it’s basically BP/Shell/Caltex/Mobil) and having a major petrol company go under because the OP is mad at them is… unfair on the millions of people in Other Countries who would have to pay more for petrol (petrol that already costs them a fortune anyway), and the people working for BP in those Other Countries who would lose their jobs because of something they had nothing to do with. > > Now, if the OP wants the _American_ arm of BP to fail, that’s understandable (but still not something I agree with). But BP is a multinational company, and there’s no reason to punish everyone because of the problems of a few. Are they one company or many companies? Why should one part of the same company not have to pay the fine just because they’re located in, say, Italy? If they’re one company, then the same people are making the decisions for policies, practices, etc. no matter what country the employee(s) are in, so why shouldn’t the whole company suffer? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/might-bp-p-l-c-yet-be-destroyed-edited-title/564472.md?page=2)