# Mikaela Lauren kisses Cecilia Braekhus -- sexual assault? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 19, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294 "2017-10-19T15:55:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/61 "2017-10-19T18:26:00Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I posted an ETA before I noticed this post of yours. > > However, you wrote what I quoted in post 45. Why go this far in a thread without quoting _some_ statute when you want to discuss what is, and not what should be? I welcome discussions of “what should be.” But they ought to be precise attempts to narrow down what should be, not vague generalities. It’s the vague generalities that I mention with disapproval in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/62 "2017-10-19T18:26:09Z")
[quote=“x-ray\_vision, post:59, topic:799294”] The legal protection is that both are willing participants in a legal sporting event. James Butler was jailed after this post-fight punch: [/QUOTE] Its absurd to compare a blindside punch to a peck on the lips. Do you believe that this guy (famous vj day kiss) should also have been prosecuted? > **[V-J Day in Times Square](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square)** > > Coordinates: .mw-parser-output .geo-default,.mw-parser-output .geo-dms,.mw-parser-output .geo-dec{display:inline}.mw-parser-output .geo-nondefault,.mw-parser-output .geo-multi-punct{display:none}.mw-parser-output .longitude,.mw-parser-output .latitude{white-space:nowrap}40°45′28″N 73°59′09″W / 40.757682°N 73.98571°W / 40.757682; -73.98571 > > V-J Day in Times Square is a photograph by Alfred Eisenstaedt that portrays a U.S. Navy sailor embracing and kissing a total stranger—a dental assistant—o... ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/63 "2017-10-19T18:30:52Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > We are posting on a message board, and this is – to your apparent surprise – not a license to use poorly supported arguments or sources. The website is “official,” but the page is written for different purposes than the thread is. The page, complete with its errors of grammar, seems intended for a general introduction to the topic of sexual assault; this thread is intended to debate the more precise contours between simple and sexual assault. > > I’ve noticed that your ready defense to exposure of poor argument or questionable factual citation sources is to piously proclaim that this is merely a message board, as though this somehow absolves you of any errors of precision or fact you have offered up. I have no idea why you believe that this message board, in particular, with its mission of fighting ignorance, would somehow insulate your argument from such attacks. > > Perhaps your memoirs will make this mystery clearer. So what you are looking for is whether the action described in the OP falls under the legal definition of “sexual assault”…but you are sure you already know the answer to this question? What is it you want to debate again? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/64 "2017-10-19T18:34:18Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Its absurd to compare a blindside punch to a peck on the lips. I answered a question regarding whether or not someone should be protected from prosecution at a press conference when they have agreed to a boxing match at a later time. > [@](#): > > Do you believe that this guy (famous vj day kiss) should also have been prosecuted? > > [V-J Day in Times Square - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square) Possibly. I don’t know enough details to make my unprofessional determination. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/65 "2017-10-19T18:35:00Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Its absurd to compare a blindside punch to a peck on the lips. > > Do you believe that this guy (famous vj day kiss) should also have been prosecuted? > > [V-J Day in Times Square - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square) The standards of 1945 are not the standards of today-I doubt police(let alone the courts) would have pursued the matter. Got any more totally-out-of-context examples? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/66 "2017-10-19T18:37:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So what you are looking for is whether the action described in the OP falls under the legal definition of “sexual assault”…but you are sure you already know the answer to this question? > What is it you want to debate again? (1) Does it? (2) Should it? In neither case are vague, conclusory, ill-supported definitions of any value. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/67 "2017-10-19T18:37:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > An act that I’d call sexual assault is one done with the intent to intent to sexually arouse or gratify someone, involving touching of breast, groin, or buttocks, or the clothing covering those areas. IF we are discussing whether or not we _personally_ would call such an action "sexual assault"then, yes, I would. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/68 "2017-10-19T18:38:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The standards of 1945 are not the standards of today-I doubt police(let alone the courts) would have pursued the matter. Got any more totally-out-of-context examples? Its not out of context in any way. In fact, its a much better example than the probable planned kiss in the op. No police would have pursued this matter either. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/69 "2017-10-19T18:39:58Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So what you are looking for is whether the action described in the OP falls under the legal definition of “sexual assault”…but you are sure you already know the answer to this question? > What is it you want to debate again? He knows but he wants to debate others with differing views. You understand the concept of debate, right? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/70 "2017-10-19T18:41:19Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > I answered a question regarding whether or not someone should be protected from prosecution at a press conference when they have agreed to a boxing match at a later time. > Possibly. I don’t know enough details to make my unprofessional determination. I totally agree the boxer should have been charged. His intent was to injure. The female boxer was simply trying to get (successfully) publicity. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/71 "2017-10-19T18:41:31Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Do you believe that this guy (famous vj day kiss) should also have been prosecuted? > > [V-J Day in Times Square - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-J_Day_in_Times_Square) Yes, in line with this [argument](http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/10/unromantic-truth-vj-kiss-photo/) and if the woman had pressed charges. I will note that this kiss, despite the woman’s later statement, is more blatantly sexual than the OP’s example, e.g., bending her backwards and restraining her. I also reject the notion that arousal is a necessary component of the crime, in line with the UCMJ. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/72 "2017-10-19T18:42:42Z")
Slight hijack: I can wrap my mind around a stair down while they are in the ring and the ref is going over the rules… But a stair down photo op? That’s just lame. Anyway: I vote sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/73 "2017-10-19T18:43:18Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > He knows but he wants to debate others with differing views. You understand the concept of debate, right? He knows “the” legal definition of sexual assault…but doesn’t think it’s worth posting? In a thread asking if a specific action was an example of that definition? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/74 "2017-10-19T18:44:32Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > I totally agree the boxer should have been charged. His intent was to injure. The female boxer was simply trying to get (successfully) publicity. Of course he should have. That’s why I posted it. Read again what post I responded to. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/75 "2017-10-19T18:45:11Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > (1) Does it? > > (2) Should it? > > In neither case are vague, conclusory, ill-supported definitions of any value. You are correct, if what we are discussing are official definitions, and not what we personally consider it to be. Where have you done this(not counting your links to someone else’s post concerning the _U.C.M.J._, since this isn’t the military were are discussing here)? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/76 "2017-10-19T18:54:02Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > Of course he should have. That’s why I posted it. Read again what post I responded to. My apologies then for misreading. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/77 "2017-10-19T18:56:01Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > He knows “the” legal definition of sexual assault…but doesn’t think it’s worth posting? > In a thread asking if a specific action was an example of that definition? Since the incident took place in Norway, I doubt he or any of us would know. As a topic of interest in the Weinstein era it makes sense to ask what might be considered sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/78 "2017-10-19T18:58:38Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > Slight hijack: I can wrap my mind around a stair down while they are in the ring and the ref is going over the rules… > > But a stair down photo op? That’s just lame. > Anyway: I vote sexual assault. There are always prefight staredowns (press conferences, weighins etc). My fave, iirc, ended with Mike Tyson telling his opponent that ‘…I’m gonna Fuck you till you love me.’ :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/79 "2017-10-19T19:06:07Z")
> [@x-ray\_vision](#): > > He knows “the” legal definition of sexual assault…but doesn’t think it’s worth posting? > In a thread asking if a specific action was an example of that definition? There are fifty states, one federal government, and one Uniform Code of Military Justice. Which should I have posted? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294/80 "2017-10-19T19:08:19Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Since the incident took place in Norway, I doubt he or any of us would know. As a topic of interest in the Weinstein era it makes sense to ask what might be considered sexual assault. So, he knows the definition…but he doesn’t. Thanks for clearing that up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mikaela-lauren-kisses-cecilia-braekhus-sexual-assault/799294.md?page=5)