# Mike Ditka: "There has been no oppression in the last 100 years that I know of." **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 10, 2017, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503 "2017-10-10T18:45:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/61 "2017-10-11T22:14:17Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Ditka is 77 years old. He was fifteen when Brown v. Board of Education was decided. He was sixteen years old the year Emmett Till was murdered and Rosa Parks refused to sit in the back of a bus. He was eighteen the year Eisenhower sent troops to integrate Little Rock schools. He was twenty when sit-ins at segregated restaurants started. He was twenty-three when there were riots at the University of Mississippi over a black student being admitted. Right. That means age is an excuse for him, so being angry with him over his statements is stupid. Obviously, he’s just too old to know any better, as his brain got fossilized back in the Pre-Civil-Rights Era, and he never learned anything else. Never had the opportunities, you see. Never saw anything but the Pre-Civil-Rights mindset on the news or in his professional life. :smack: I really can’t wait for the “They’re Too Old To Know Better” idea to die, at least as regards racism and sexism, but I doubt it ever will. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/62 "2017-10-11T22:44:21Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Right. That means age is an excuse for him, so being angry with him over his statements is stupid. Obviously, he’s just too old to know any better, as his brain got fossilized back in the Pre-Civil-Rights Era, and he never learned anything else. > > Never had the opportunities, you see. Never saw anything but the Pre-Civil-Rights mindset on the news or in his professional life. > > :smack: > > I really can’t wait for the “They’re Too Old To Know Better” idea to die, at least as regards racism and sexism, but I doubt it ever will. I’m not positive, but I think you took the exact opposite meaning of that as was intended. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/63 "2017-10-11T23:26:22Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > I really can’t wait for the “They’re Too Old To Know Better” idea to die, at least as regards racism and sexism, but I doubt it ever will. That excuse really doesn’t play well with me. I’m 55. I grew up back when racism, sexism, and homophobia were widespread and condoned. That’s the background I came from. But I got better and rejected the prejudices I grew up with. There’s no reason Mike Ditka couldn’t have done the same. ---
**Author:** ![fervour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@fervour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fervour)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/64 "2017-10-12T04:38:54Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That excuse really doesn’t play well with me. I’m 55. I grew up back when racism, sexism, and homophobia were widespread and condoned. That’s the background I came from. > > But I got better and rejected the prejudices I grew up with. There’s no reason Mike Ditka couldn’t have done the same. I’m 50 soon to be 51. I want to say to you thank you. As a gay male, just thank you. I don’t want straight men to turn gay. I don’t want to convert straight people to gay. I don’t even want the species to die out. It’s nice to know that you understand that I don’t intend to rape you. I could never hurt you. We want different things, but I would never deny your right to choose what you want---- Whoever you choose, ANYBODY------as long as that person chooses you too ------It’s just nice to know there are people like you. Straight people, gay people, ambiguously sexualized people----- ( I do understand that you are a straight man). You are good. I thank you for that. Universe, help me be as good as Little Nemo, please. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/65 "2017-10-12T05:13:16Z")
“Few things are harder to put up with than the annoyance of a good example.” - Mark Twain ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/66 "2017-10-12T05:39:03Z")
> [@fervour](#): > > I’m 50 soon to be 51. I want to say to you thank you. As a gay male, just thank you. I don’t want straight men to turn gay. I don’t want to convert straight people to gay. I don’t even want the species to die out. It’s nice to know that you understand that I don’t intend to rape you. I could never hurt you. We want different things, but I would never deny your right to choose what you want---- > Whoever you choose, ANYBODY------as long as that person chooses you too ------It’s just nice to know there are people like you. Straight people, gay people, ambiguously sexualized people----- ( I do understand that you are a straight man). > > You are good. I thank you for that. Universe, help me be as good as Little Nemo, please. I thank you but honestly I don’t think I deserve a lot of credit for just behaving the way a normal person should behave. Regular decency shouldn’t be seen as extraordinary. I’ll just settle for Chris Rock giving me that cookie. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/67 "2017-10-12T11:14:10Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > … [post doorhinged] So, is my tomato and mushroom free, or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/68 "2017-10-12T13:28:32Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > I think it’s even more base - conservatives don’t have empathy. They cannot fathom what other people are feeling. I think that is the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives. Everything else is derivative from that. Hey let’s call some 50% of the country sociopaths that sounds like a fuckin’ great idea. > [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > It’s not an assessment based on the facts or the history. It’s a belief that the world is full of bad people and that we need the government to imprison and kill them all, and that we need to stop giving money to the undeserving bad people. That means more money for the productive good people. Do you honestly believe this would pass an ideological turing test? Do you think you could go to a conservative forum, profess this as your viewpoint, and have them believe that you were one of them? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/69 "2017-10-12T14:53:11Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Hey let’s call some 50% of the country sociopaths that sounds like a fuckin’ great idea. I agree that this is not a good idea. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Do you honestly believe this would pass an ideological turing test? Do you think you could go to a conservative forum, profess this as your viewpoint, and have them believe that you were one of them? I would be willing to bet $1 that a new poster on a conservative forum could post exactly this: “The world is filled with bad people. We need the government to either put them in jail or kill them and we need to stop giving money to undeserving BAD people. That means more money for the productive GOOD people.” And most people on that forum will be behind this all the way, is my prediction. What’s a conservative forum nowadays? Stormies are gone, right? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/70 "2017-10-12T20:19:39Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I agree that this is not a good idea. > I would be willing to bet $1 that a new poster on a conservative forum could post exactly this: “The world is filled with bad people. We need the government to either put them in jail or kill them and we need to stop giving money to undeserving BAD people. That means more money for the productive GOOD people.” > > And most people on that forum will be behind this all the way, is my prediction. > > What’s a conservative forum nowadays? Stormies are gone, right? FreeRepublic’s still gabbing away. Alternet dot org. World Net Daily (wnd dot com). Newsbusters dot org. Those are some of the less openly-Nazi ones, anyway. But there will be people there who could direct you to whatever the successor-site for Stormfront is. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/71 "2017-10-12T20:27:36Z")
There’s the Asatru Alliance … ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/72 "2017-10-12T20:42:55Z")
I believe most conservative intellectuals gravitate to a few of the more thoughtful subreddits and 4chan boards these days. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/73 "2017-10-12T21:56:26Z")
City-data’s politics forum is pretty much a wretched hive of scum and villainy. You can learn a lot about Republicans in a hurry there. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/74 "2017-10-12T22:12:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Do you honestly believe this would pass an ideological turing test? Do you think you could go to a conservative forum, profess this as your viewpoint, and have them believe that you were one of them? I’m not sure why you think it wouldn’t. I think it’s a logical and defensible position. It’s not one I currently agree with, but once upon a time, I admit I did. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/75 "2017-10-12T22:28:14Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > That excuse really doesn’t play well with me. I’m 55. I grew up back when racism, sexism, and homophobia were widespread and condoned. That’s the background I came from. > > But I got better and rejected the prejudices I grew up with. There’s no reason Mike Ditka couldn’t have done the same. [A recent article](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/11/weinstein-age-innocence-sexual-abuse-fiction) made a very similar point about Harvey Weinstein and sexual harassment: > [@](#): > > “I came of age in the 60s and 70s, when all the rules about behavior and workplaces were different,” [Weinstein] wrote. “That was the culture, then.” […] > > But let’s concede that there was indeed a time when Hollywood studio bosses regarded young female actors as chattel, human props that they owned and could therefore prod, grab and humiliate at whim. Even if you give way on that point, it does not help Weinstein. For this earlier age that he invokes in his defence […] does not include the period when he was committing his alleged crimes. […] > > The Thomas and Packwood affairs were a quarter of a century ago. He was around when they happened. When America went through its collective lesson in sexual harassment, Weinstein was in class: he just wasn’t listening. Similarly, if Ditka had been saying “There’s no oppression” of black people back in the 1950s, before white America in general started to wake up to the level of injustice in our society, then he might be able to deploy the “collective ignorance” excuse. But as **Derleth** noted, Mike Ditka, like every other American his age, has lived through a hell of a lot of eye-opening historical events since the 1950s. He doesn’t get a pass for simply not having paid any attention to them. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/76 "2017-10-13T02:01:11Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > FreeRepublic’s still gabbing away. Alternet dot org. World Net Daily (wnd dot com). Newsbusters dot org. Those are some of the less openly-Nazi ones, anyway. But there will be people there who could direct you to whatever the successor-site for Stormfront is. Well, there is, pardon my language, N-wordmania. But it’s more pathetic than anything else though. Like “derp derp derp, slurs, amiright?” Posts about their obviously made-up encounters with black people, and badly made photoshopped images. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/77 "2017-10-13T02:24:26Z")
> [@](#): > > Similarly, if Ditka had been saying “There’s no oppression” of black people back in the 1950s, before white America in general started to wake up to the level of injustice in our society, then he might be able to deploy the “collective ignorance” excuse. Nah, if he’d said that back in the 50s, everybody would have said, “Of course there is. So?” ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/78 "2017-10-13T02:30:53Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I believe most conservative intellectuals gravitate to a few of the more thoughtful subreddits and 4chan boards these days. Is that a slam? Because 4chan’s political boards are not intelligent in the slightest. 4chan brings on the trolls, who aren’t actually interested in taking anything seriously. Sure, there are what seem to be sincere racists and stuff, but I don’t see any real argument for conservatism. And while I’m sure there are good political subreddits, the most famous conservative ones are not intellectual in the slightest. And when any conservative arguments come up elsewhere, they are all extremely bad. I think even **Clothahump** and **Starving Artist** would be ashamed to make them. Then again, to be honest, I haven’t seen an intellectual argument for conservatism in a long time. You know, something that starts with something we all believe in and then explains why the conservative take is the best one. I remember **Bricker** making some about long term economics. But that’s about it. That’s not to say I’ve not met smart conservatives. But, when politics comes up, I don’t hear any of that intelligence in their arguments. 4chan and Reddit may actually be some of the better places–and that’s saying some bad things. ---
**Author:** ![fervour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@fervour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fervour)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/79 "2017-10-13T02:36:25Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I thank you but honestly I don’t think I deserve a lot of credit for just behaving the way a normal person should behave. Regular decency shouldn’t be seen as extraordinary. I’ll just settle for Chris Rock giving me that cookie. I live in south Alabama. I wish you guys would have occupied us during the civil war like the US occupied West Germany and South Korea. My partner and I joke that “you are never more than 15 feet from a rebel flag. . .” SERIOUSLY. I have been denied medical coverage because I’m on my husband’s policy. My name doesn’t appear on my medical insurance card. You think you don’t deserve credit for regular decency, I respectfully disagree. My partner and I built our house. I’m not looking for praise. We walk 3 to 5 miles daily. Can you imagine my shame, when someone stops us and asks, “Do you need a ride?” And I reply in my most manly voice, “No, we’re just getting some exercise. . .”? Remember, I’ve been denied medical coverage because my insurance is not in my name. It’s a delicate dance. And it shouldn’t be. People should be free to be who they are. In the South, you better know your place. So I reiterate, thank you for being good. My disclaimer is that I’ve lived 48 years in South Alabama. I KNOW WHAT THE CONFEDERATE FLAG MEANS. Heritage be damned. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2017, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503/80 "2017-10-13T02:37:44Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Then again, to be honest, I haven’t seen an intellectual argument for conservatism in a long time. Nope, I haven’t either. What’s telling is the fact that conservatism has done an about face on something they used to go to the mat to defend: global free trade. Economically, you can’t get any more conservative than that. The financial crisis of 2008 left a lot of conservative voters angry and a lot of conservative pundits looking stupid. But rather than admit that their economic philosophy is wrong, they realized it was just easier to exploit the growing racial animus. In the end, whether it’s the 19th Century’s Democratic Party of the 20th and 21st Century Republican Party, all roads for conservatives lead back to the politics of racism, exclusion, and dominance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-ditka-there-has-been-no-oppression-in-the-last-100-years-that-i-know-of/798503.md?page=5)