# Mike Huckabee is strongly opposed to abortion - including in cases of rape or incest **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 7, 2008, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598 "2008-01-07T15:22:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/101 "2008-01-08T15:54:54Z")
Interesting thought about the artificial wombs though - if what you’ve got at the end is the same problem as with conventional adoption (maternal remorse, lowered quality of life for the adopted kid versus a bio-mothered one), and if what you’ve got at the beginning is the need to allow the foetus to live until it can be viably transferred, then it doesn’t look like anything much has been gained, other than to extend women yet another choice simply for the sake of having another choice. I’ve no idea where this brave new world would end up. I may be happier not knowing. > [@Sophistry and Illusion](#): > > **Der Trihs** , in my life I’ve known a lot of people like you. They all thought they inspired the anger of others because they dared speak truths we were afraid to utter. They were all wrong. It’s your total inability to see the point of view of anyone who disagrees with you which pisses people off. You can’t see it, but your posts display the same dogmatism you claim to decry in others. It’s not just the dogmatism though - it’s the patent absurdity. There’s no reasoning with someone who thinks the typical pro-lifer is someone who wants to see unwilling mothers chained to the delivery bed, and will rub their hands with glee if they die there. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/102 "2008-01-08T15:57:24Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] Interesting thought about the artificial wombs though - if what you’ve got at the end is the same problem as with conventional adoption (maternal remorse, lowered quality of life for the adopted kid versus a bio-mothered one), and if what you’ve got at the beginning is the need to allow the foetus to live until it can be viably transferred, then it doesn’t look like anything much has been gained, other than to extend women yet another choice simply for the sake of having another choice. I’ve no idea where this brave new world would end up. I may be happier not knowing. [/QUOTE] Yep, you’re right. What I’d REALLY like to have is a high-quality, no side effect birth control as the norm, with a free, readily available no side effect drug taken to override it when you want to \*become \*pregnant. And a pony. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/103 "2008-01-08T15:57:42Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] Because that late or heavy period might be a miscarriage. If every conception is a person, then every miscarriage could be a murder. And all in vitro fertilizations would have to be implanted. No more fertilizing ten, implanting four, and then reducing the number to two. You’d have to implant all ten or not do it at all. [/QUOTE] Not necessarily, any more than we pass laws now mandating that every medical procedure to save a life must be successful. Right now, we don’t requite a criminal investigation or autopsy for every death. Why would we have to start investigating every miscarriage? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/104 "2008-01-08T15:59:20Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Not necessarily, any more than we pass laws now mandating that every medical procedure to save a life must be successful. Right now, we don’t requite a criminal investigation or autopsy for every death. Why would we have to start investigating every miscarriage? [/QUOTE] Because you’ve got to either allow abortion on demand, or treat every late or heavy period as murder! There’s no middle to be excluded!!!one [QUOTE=WhyNot] Yep, you’re right. What I’d REALLY like to have is a high-quality, no side effect birth control as the norm, with a free, readily available no side effect drug taken to override it when you want to \*become \*pregnant. And a pony. [/QUOTE] I’ll drink to that. Though I like donkeys better. They’re cute. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/105 "2008-01-08T16:05:58Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] consequences og throwing over Roe vs. Wade: If abortion would be illegal in, let’s say 5-7 states. Wouldn’t many women between the age of 18-30 move from those state and settle in places where abortion where legal? [/QUOTE] I think you grossly overestimate the amount of thought people give to the various abortion laws in the different states when the make important life decisions. There’s a whole lot more to life than making sure you live in the most abortion-friendly state in the union. Talk about making it illegal to cross state lines for an abortion is ridiculous. If a state did try to do that (and I doubt any would), it would never stand up to scrutiny in the courts. Believe it or not, the vast majority of people in this country are not interested in turning it into a Fundamentalist Christian Theocracy. And if _Roe v Wade_ were overturned, that would be the biggest boon to the Democratic party ever. We’d see the issue “fixed” very quickly. Most people want abortion to be legal in the US. You’d get a similar shift towards the Republicans if the SCOTUS suddenly found a right to SSM in the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/106 "2008-01-08T16:20:07Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Right now, we don’t requite a criminal investigation or autopsy for every death. Why would we have to start investigating every miscarriage? [/QUOTE] Every suspicious death must be investigated. Any death that takes place outside a hospital must be investigated. Under those two laws, all miscarriages would have to be investigated. Not punishing every woman who is suspected of “causing” her miscarriage would be a miscarriage of justice. Before abortion was legal, every miscarriage was investigated by the hospital to determine that it wasn’t a coverup of an illegal abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/107 "2008-01-08T16:35:59Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] Before abortion was legal, every miscarriage was investigated by the hospital to determine that it wasn’t a coverup of an illegal abortion. [/QUOTE] Are you sure about that? Don’t something like 15% of pregnancies end in miscarriage? Wouldn’t that mean pretty much constant investigations? ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/108 "2008-01-08T16:47:00Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Are you sure about that? Don’t something like 15% of pregnancies end in miscarriage? Wouldn’t that mean pretty much constant investigations? [/QUOTE] The book “Intern” written by Doctor X describes how the doctors had to examine every woman who came into the hospital claiming to be miscarrying to find the fetus. If they didn’t find some tissue proving the woman was pregnant and had spontaneously aborted, the doctor had to report it to the Medical Review Board, who then contacted the police. ---
**Author:** ![Wildfire\_MM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f08c70/32.png) [@Wildfire\_MM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wildfire_MM)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/109 "2008-01-08T17:09:43Z")
another question that non here seams to think about would individualistic humans in the west today accept that abortion would be illegal? would people between 16 and 30 respect such a law? I bet that a ban on abortion had been changed pretty soon when society had started to feel the consequences of the law ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/110 "2008-01-08T17:54:12Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] When they develope artifical wombs that can gestate a fetus, the demand for abortion will end. [/QUOTE] **Annie** , I agree with you almost in entirety, but this is a very dangerous path to go down for a pro-choicer. It seems to me that for artificial wombs to end abortions, there would have to be a requirement that pregnant women who wished to terminate could not take RU-486, or something of that ilk, but instead would be required to submit to an invaisve surgical procedure to have the fetus removed. If all you are saying is that there would be a lesser demand for abortion, then I would probably agree with you. But it wouldn’t end that demand. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/111 "2008-01-08T18:04:41Z")
[QUOTE=Wildfire\*\*MM] another question that non here seams to think about would individualistic humans in the west today accept that abortion would be illegal? would people between 16 and 30 respect such a law? I bet that a ban on abortion had been changed pretty soon when society had started to feel the consequences of the law [/QUOTE] Why do you think that? They’re still putting people in jail for smoking pot, with no realistic chance of the laws changing in the foreseeable future. Once an onerous law gets in place, it can be VERY hard to get rid of it, if enough people support it. And LOTS of people would support very heavy-handed abortion laws. I think Der Tris’ vision of anti-choice types rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of women chained to their delivery beds is much closer to the truth than is generally recognized. A major, unacknowledged portion of the energy of the anti-abortionists is “punish those slutty women by making them have the babies their wanton sex produces, whether they want to or not.” ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/112 "2008-01-08T18:44:21Z")
[QUOTE=villa] **Annie** , I agree with you almost in entirety, but this is a very dangerous path to go down for a pro-choicer. It seems to me that for artificial wombs to end abortions, there would have to be a requirement that pregnant women who wished to terminate could not take RU-486, or something of that ilk, but instead would be required to submit to an invaisve surgical procedure to have the fetus removed. If all you are saying is that there would be a lesser demand for abortion, then I would probably agree with you. But it wouldn’t end that demand. [/QUOTE] I stand corrected. But if “embryo donation” becomes a reality, I think the demand for abortions will be greatly lessened. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/113 "2008-01-08T18:59:36Z")
It is tough enough to be a parent without being an unwilling parent. Tough enough being a child without being an unwanted child. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/114 "2008-01-08T19:08:28Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] I stand corrected. But if “embryo donation” becomes a reality, I think the demand for abortions will be greatly lessened. [/QUOTE] This won’t be a serious solution for at least 100 years, probably longer. Remember, “reality” has to be “not very expensive” for it to be widespread. And frankly, I would oppose any effort to mandate that women donate their embryos rather than abort. Not to mention that we’d have to find homes for all these “donated embryos” once they are born. I’m not so sure that would be an easy task. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/115 "2008-01-08T20:16:43Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] Any death that takes place outside a hospital must be investigated. [/quote] Really? I’ve never heard of that law. Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide a cite? > [@](#): > > Before abortion was legal, every miscarriage was investigated by the hospital to determine that it wasn’t a coverup of an illegal abortion. And while I’m here, I’ll also request a cite for this inaccurate claim. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/116 "2008-01-08T22:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Really? I’ve never heard of that law. Perhaps you could be so kind as to provide a cite? [/quote] That seems to be a state-by-state law. [Here](http://healthvermont.gov/hc/death_certificate/death_vt.aspx) is an example of one for Vermont > [@](#): > > And while I’m here, I’ll also request a cite for this inaccurate claim. The only example I can find is the book I mentioned above. I can’t find anything on-line. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/117 "2008-01-08T22:14:09Z")
[QUOTE=Annie-Xmas] That seems to be a state-by-state law. [Here](http://healthvermont.gov/hc/death_certificate/death_vt.aspx) is an example of one for Vermont. [/QUOTE] Doesn’t that pretty much say the opposite? > [@](#): > > Death Outside a Hospital with No Suspicion > When some one is found dead by another person either in a residence or outdoors the usual response is to call 911. This call will activate the police, who will respond to the scene and make a preliminary investigation. > > If preliminary investigation indicates no “suspicious” circumstances and a call to the person’s primary care physician indicates that the death was not unexpected, does not have any reason(remote trauma contributing to death) to be a Medical Examiner’s case and will issue a death certificate, then the OCME need not be involved and the body can be released. > > Death Outside of Hospital Suspicious or “Unattended” > If the preliminary investigation by law enforcement uncovers something “suspicious”, the person has no primary physician, the primary care physician feels the death is truly unexpected and is unwilling to certify the death, then the OCME local investigators are activated by calling 1-888-552-2952. The local medical examiner is dispatched to the scene and begins their investigation. That pretty much says that there’s only an investigation if the death is “suspicious” or unexpected. Otherwise the police and the deceased’s physician can just sign off on it. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/118 "2008-01-08T22:20:07Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] Doesn’t that pretty much say the opposite? [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > Death Outside a Hospital with No Suspicion > When some one is found dead by another person either in a residence or outdoors the usual response is to call 911. This call will activate the police, who will respond to the scene and **make a preliminary investigation**. > > **If preliminary investigation indicates** no “suspicious” circumstances and a call to the person’s primary care physician indicates that the death was not unexpected, does not have any reason(remote trauma contributing to death) to be a Medical Examiner’s case and will issue a death certificate, then the OCME need not be involved and the body can be released. > > Death Outside of Hospital Suspicious or “Unattended” > **If the preliminary investigation** by law enforcement uncovers something “suspicious”, the person has no primary physician, the primary care physician feels the death is truly unexpected and is unwilling to certify the death, then the OCME local investigators are activated by calling 1-888-552-2952. The local medical examiner is dispatched to the scene and begins their investigation. bolding mine. Am I hallucinating the words “preliminary investigation” three times in that quote? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/119 "2008-01-08T22:28:03Z")
Yeah, by the police…not by the medical examiner’s office. And that’s, from what the site describes, the police just looking at the body, then calling the person’s doctor and saying, “Hey, Doc, John Smith is dead. Can you sign off on it?” ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598/120 "2008-01-08T22:31:45Z")
Additionally, the quoted page only says that when someone calls 911, the police will respond and perform a preliminary investigation. That says nothing of what the law requires to happen when someone dies, and I imagine is true for all states. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mike-huckabee-is-strongly-opposed-to-abortion-including-in-cases-of-rape-or-incest/432598.md?page=7)