# Mild objection to a Dex thread closing **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485 "2007-12-10T16:16:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/1 "2007-12-10T16:16:07Z")
The [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9255791#post9255791) that **Dex** closed was certainly objectionable. Witness **Opal** ’s reaction just before it was closed. But the rationale **Dex** gave for closing it was that it discussed illegal subject matter. Here’s my beef: the law is not entirely knowable. **Dex** says “please read and play by the rules. OK?” implying that if the OP (not me! I never posted in that thread) had read the SDMB rule regarding posting about illegal actions, he **would have known not to post** about shooting cats with BB guns. But how is he supposed to know that shooting cats with BB guns is illegal? (Unimportant, but interesting note: the actions he was asking about are not necessarily illegal. See below.) If I had an infallable memory and an extra 100 years to live, I still would not have enough time to learn “the law.” There’s too much of it and it changes too quickly. Should I get my thread locked for asking where I can buy rattlesnake meat in Missouri on a Sunday? Does the SDMB charge each OP with knowing the entire law? Do I need to hire a lawyer to do two hours of legal research before I post anything? A good application of the rule would be that one is not allowed to post regarding anything that a reasonable person would understand to be illegal. The real reason that the thread in question was locked is probably that the mods were deluged with reports. Fine. Move it to the pit. Or just honestly say, “I’m closing this because you’ve pissed everybody off.” But you can’t require all posters to know the law in its entirety. And you shouldn’t close a thread just because the OP doesn’t realize that one of the courses of action he wishes to be advised on might be illegal in some states. If you really want to be able to use a rule to back up such thread closings, how about making a new one: “No posting about stuff that will upset other posters.” Sound like a good rule? And just for fun, here are some statutes that suggest that the OP’s actions are legal, and that, possibly, even his (morally reprehensible) planned course of action might be legal. > [@Ala. Code 1975 sec 13A-11-246](#): > > This article shall not apply to any of the following persons or institutions: > (1) Academic and research enterprises that use dogs or cats for medical or pharmaceutical research or testing. > [. . .] > > (3) Any person who kills a dog or cat found outside of the owned or rented property of the owner or custodian of the dog or cat when the dog or cat threatens immediate physical injury or is causing physical injury to any person, animal, bird, or silvicultural or agricultural industry. > > (4) A person who shoots a dog or cat with a BB gun not capable of inflicting serious injury when the dog or cat is defecating or urinating on the person’s property. > [@Idaho Code Title 25](#): > > Section 25-3514: Chapter construed not to interfere with normal or legal practices > > No part of this chapter shall be construed as interfering with or allowing interference with: > (1) Normal or accepted veterinary practices; > [. . .] > (4) The humane destruction of an animal which is diseased or disabled beyond recovery for any useful purpose, or the humane destruction of animals for population control; > [. . .] > > (6) The killing of any animal, by any person at any time, which may be found outside of the owned or rented property of the owner or custodian of such animal and which is found injuring or posing a threat to any person, farm animal or property; > > [. . .] > > (8) The killing or destruction of predatory animals, vermin or other animals or birds which are injuring or posing a threat to farm or privately owned animals or property, when such killing or destruction is conducted in accordance with laws and rules covering such animals; > [. . .] > > The practices, procedures and activities described in this section shall not be construed to be cruel nor shall they be defined as cruelty to animals, nor shall any person engaged in these practices, procedures or activities be charged with cruelty to animals. > [@Maine Revised Statutes Annotated](#): > > Affirmative defenses. It is an affirmative defense to this section that: > > A. The conduct was performed by a licensed veterinarian or was a part of scientific research governed by accepted standards; > > B. The conduct was designed to control or eliminate rodents, ants or other common pests on the defendant’s own property; or[. . .] (underlining mine) IANAL, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/2 "2007-12-10T16:19:40Z")
> [@](#): > > Or just honestly say, “I’m closing this because you’ve pissed everybody off.” Word. ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/3 "2007-12-10T17:27:39Z")
[QUOTE=Randy Seltzer] “No posting about stuff that will upset other posters.” Sound like a good rule? [/QUOTE] Hell no! That would suck the fun out of this place faster than… erm… something that sucks fun out really fast! RO is half the reason I read the SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/4 "2007-12-10T17:30:36Z")
You make a good point. In **Dex** ’s defense, the OP doesn’t have a location listed and someone did cite where it is illegal in at least one State. In addition, our new guest was probably being a troll. I think that the thread should be re-opened and moved to the Pit where it belongs. We haven’t had a good R.O. thread in quite a while. ---
**Author:** ![lobstermobster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobstermobster/32/10033_2.png) [@lobstermobster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobstermobster)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/5 "2007-12-10T17:33:18Z")
what does RO stand for ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/6 "2007-12-10T17:38:10Z")
[QUOTE=lobstermobster] what does RO stand for [/QUOTE] Recreational Outrage ---
**Author:** ![NightRabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/bbce88/32.png) [@NightRabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NightRabbit)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/7 "2007-12-10T18:08:37Z")
That’s stupid. The SDMB has a major cat-lover problem. Dollars to donuts if I began a thread about feral weasels infesting the neighborhood, and what I could do about them, it wouldn’t be an issue. I love how **OpalCat** ’s bleeding heart opinions on animal cruelty become board policy within the blink of an eye. Meanwhile, I’d be interested to hear a discussion on what the moral problem is with humanely killing feral cats and stray dogs, if they’re just taken to the pound anyway and shot THERE, but I suppose that’s not allowed as discussion topic, either :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Risha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5fc32e/32.png) [@Risha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Risha)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/8 "2007-12-10T18:29:21Z")
[QUOTE=NightRabbit] That’s stupid. The SDMB has a major cat-lover problem. Dollars to donuts if I began a thread about feral weasels infesting the neighborhood, and what I could do about them, it wouldn’t be an issue. I love how **OpalCat** ’s bleeding heart opinions on animal cruelty become board policy within the blink of an eye. [/QUOTE] Actually, I have a problem with _any_ animal being injured or killed due to mildly inconveniencing a human. But go ahead with your thread, I’ll just avoid it like I was planning to for the original one. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/9 "2007-12-10T18:56:31Z")
> [@](#): > > **NightRabbit** said: > Meanwhile, I’d be interested to hear a discussion on what the moral problem is with humanely killing feral cats and stray dogs, if they’re just taken to the pound anyway and shot THERE, but I suppose that’s not allowed as discussion topic, either It costs a person with a feral cat problem significantly more money to trap the cats alive and take them to the pound. Adult feral cats are not exactly going to get adopted, and the pound doesn’t just take them off your hands for free. Personally I think as long as the person who kills them isn’t out to do it by torture, but does it as quick and clean as possible, there is no moral problem there. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/10 "2007-12-10T19:42:21Z")
Based on **Randy** ’s cites, I don’t see that _killing_ stray cats is necessarily illegal. Shooting them within city limits, probably. Then the OP should have been dealt with by advising **TO** of such. I was a little surprised that **Opal** wasn’t warned for so direct an insult outside the Pit. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/11 "2007-12-10T19:45:26Z")
I linked to an article from the New York Times in that thread. The article discussed the problem of feral cats killing wild birds. Now the domestic cat is in no danger of extinction, but some bird species are, and if a feral cat is hunting an endangered wild bird species, one could argue that the cat ought to be stopped, whether that’s by shooting it or by some other means. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/12 "2007-12-10T19:51:35Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] … Personally I think as long as the person who kills them isn’t out to do it by torture, … [/QUOTE] Interesting, [QUOTE=T.O.] I tortured animals in a fashion pretty much identical to a scene that haunted me after being exposed to it way too early. I doubt I’d ever get the idea to shove prickly-pear needles through guppies mouths and out by their tails and then standing them up in the dirt without that influence. I’m pretty confident that early exposure to violent media affected me in a negative way. …[RIGHT][Link to Post](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=9254977#post9254977)[/RIGHT] [/QUOTE] I’m pretty confident that I smell troll. CMC +fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/13 "2007-12-10T20:12:21Z")
[QUOTE=Dewey Finn] I linked to an article from the New York Times in that thread. The article discussed the problem of feral cats killing wild birds. Now the domestic cat is in no danger of extinction, but some bird species are, and if a feral cat is hunting an endangered wild bird species, one could argue that the cat ought to be stopped, whether that’s by shooting it or by some other means. [/QUOTE] That’s a huge problem in New Zealand, where bird - and other - species evolved with no mammalian predators to cope with, and introduced species like cats, dogs, possums, rats and stoats have wrought havoc on largely defenceless populations, pushing many to the brink of extinction. I’ve shot feral - and probably domestic - cats before, as well as a lot of possums and rabbits, and don’t have a problem with it as long as it’s a quick and clean kill. A .22 will do the job easily for a clean killing shot on a small mammal: with an air rifle, you’re probably looking at a .22 with a velocity of at least 1000 fps, which means a pneumatic or a pre-charge, and they ain’t cheap. Frankly, I’d rather have the skink colony, the bellbirds and the fantails than a few mangy, disease-ridden felines skulking around; and if it’s a choice between your fat pampered moggy going bush for an afternoon of killing and a breeding population of endangered species - bang! ---
**Author:** ![Lionne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Lionne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lionne)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/14 "2007-12-10T20:33:17Z")
I recently read a chapter in the book, \*The World Without Us \* that dealt with what would happen if humans were no longer around to care and feed the domestic cat, and the havoc they would wreak on the existing bird populations. It really opened my eyes to the amount of damage they do, since they will continue to hunt even when they are not hungry. I don’t know if the OPin the other thread is a troll or not, but it is a touchy subject to bring up, with no real right or wrong answer. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/15 "2007-12-10T22:28:28Z")
Quick response: first, I have given **Bricker** an OK to start a discussion about [the legality of killing cats.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=447307) As usual with the law, it’s not so simple. I stand by my closing of the “how to kill cats,” however. There is a difference between a discussion of the law (which is certainly permitted on our boards) and a discussion about how to commit crimes or to violate the law. We have this all the time: a discussion about whether the laws on marijuana use are fair is permitted; a discussion about where to obtain high-quality weed is not. The thread was closed based on its purpose – how to commit cat-icide. The open thread discussing the law is fine. Everyone OK on the diff? I agree, in re-reading, that I was perhaps a bit too harsh on **T.O.** in assuming that he would know that shooting stray cats with a BB gun or braining them with a slingshot is illegal. I probably should not have said “Play by the rules,” I should have said “These are the rules, and your question is not within them.” I was rushed when I was writing my post, and I sort of assumed that most people would know that cruelty to animals is generally illegal. ---
**Author:** ![T.O](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@T.O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.O)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/16 "2007-12-10T22:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=crowmanyclouds] Interesting,I’m pretty confident that I smell troll. CMC +fnord! [/QUOTE] No, I was being honest to illustrate a point. Lots of kids that age (I was 10 or 11) torture small animals like insects or fish. It’s not something I’m proud of, but I don’t think it was wholly aberrant behavior. What I found important was that the method I chose to kill the guppies was obviously (in hindsight) an imitation of a disturbing scene from a movie I had seen when I was 6. I also squished snails and burned ants with a magnifying glass. My “creative” torture of guppies was no doubt caused by early exposure to media I should have been protected from. I don’t want to torture the cats that infest my yard, I just want them gone. One of the reasons I haven’t switched to using a slingshot is I’m afraid of causing a crippling injury leading to the cat suffering unduly. The BB gun I’m using seems to just sting them, and I was considering upgrading to a more powerful airgun that could kill them humanely. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/17 "2007-12-10T22:52:33Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven] I agree, in re-reading, that I was perhaps a bit too harsh on **T.O.** in assuming that **he would know that shooting stray cats with a BB gun or braining them with a slingshot is illegal**. I probably should not have said “Play by the rules,” I should have said “These are the rules, and your question is not within them.” I was rushed when I was writing my post, and I sort of assumed that most people would know that cruelty to animals is generally illegal. [/QUOTE] It seems like you are ignoring the point that shooting cats isn’t necessarily illegal. If he had started a thread asking how to get rid of gophers would you have assumed that was illegal activity as well? ---
**Author:** ![T.O](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@T.O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.O)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/18 "2007-12-10T23:05:26Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] I was a little surprised that **Opal** wasn’t warned for so direct an insult outside the Pit. [/QUOTE] It’s no biggie, I’ve been on the internet a while and I’m used to being called a subhuman by liberals for not being politically correct. It just reinforces my beliefs about how a certain percentage of the population likes to dehumanize those they disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/19 "2007-12-10T23:06:49Z")
well, sure. What do you expect from liberals? ---
**Author:** ![T.O](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@T.O](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T.O)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485/20 "2007-12-10T23:07:44Z")
[QUOTE=CarnalK] It seems like you are ignoring the point that shooting cats isn’t necessarily illegal. If he had started a thread asking how to get rid of gophers would you have assumed that was illegal activity as well? [/QUOTE] You’re right, I did not assume it was illegal. I lived in a rural area where it was perfectly legal to kill animals that entered your property. I knew that discharging a firearm within the city limits was illegal, which was why I was asking about non-firearm methods. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/mild-objection-to-a-dex-thread-closing/429485.md?page=2)