# Miles driven tax instead of a gas tax? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 17, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306 "2004-11-17T18:07:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/21 "2004-11-18T01:55:18Z")
For a given car a gasoline tax is a mileage tax isn’t it? The more miles you drive the more fuel you use and the more tax you pay. This looks like a way to raise taxes on gasoline without appearing to raise taxes on gasoline, thus fulfilling Arnie’s vow not to raise taxes. Hmph!. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/22 "2004-11-18T02:54:39Z")
By way of **sarcasm** , it is funny to see how concerned some folks are about this **proposed** tax. So, in this spirit, I did a cut and paste of the sort of responses I got on “my” tax and changed them very slightly. The changed words are the italics. Basically, if you don’t want to pay the tax (if it happens) then just don’t drive. _Mileage taxes_ do not target only one “specific portion of the population.” They equally target anyone who buys _gas_, just like a sales tax on _tobacco_ applies equally to anyone who buys tobacco products. No one who does not wish to pay a _mileage tax_ is in any way coerced into paying it. - _They can just sell their house and move._ The _mileage_ tax should be 15 dollars a gallon. The premise behind _mileage_ taxes is that they are levied on goods that: (1) tend to have inelastic demand, and (2) are used for socially deleterious purposes. In other words, the kinds of things that get slapped with a sin tax are those that people aren’t likely to give up, but are unpopular enough to provide political cover for the people who vote them in. Whoa! Huh? Being a former _driver_, I could give a rat’s ass about the law, as I don’t _drive_. 😃🙂 :rolleyes: 😃🙂 :rolleyes: 😃🙂 :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/23 "2004-11-18T12:30:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Whoa! Huh? Being a former _driver_, I could give a rat’s ass about the law, as I don’t _drive_. > > 😃🙂 :rolleyes: 😃🙂 :rolleyes: 😃🙂 :rolleyes: First they came for the SUVs and I did not speak out because I did not drive an SUV. Then they came for the Minivans and I did not speak out because I did not drive a minivan. Then they came for the Compacts and I did not speak out because I did not drive a Compact. Then they came for my feet and there was no where to run because the goverment took my _feet_, dammit! GEEZ! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/24 "2004-11-18T13:23:55Z")
> [@](#): > > **Spectre** said: > Perhaps a long-term benefit my result from such a tax, since it would discourage suburban sprawl no matter what kind of cars people drive. Yes, the freedom of people to live in a place of their liking is bad, bad, bad and must be eliminated one way or another. The ends justify the means. > [@](#): > > **Merkwurdigliebe** said: > I don’t think that everyone should have to live in a city, but we should focus more on decentralized planning that allows mixed zones of every density. Every density huh? Like my rural, everybody’s got at least half an acre, there are woods all around type area? Part of the reason that works is that it is far from the city. The reasons people live there include the fact that they _like being far away from the city_. > [@](#): > > **Cheesesteak** said: > Frankly I don’t see any possible downside to installing a tracking device in millions of vehicles registered in CA. Americans just love telling the government the details of their every movement, and I’m sure the costs will be negligible. And none of the Silicon Valley geeks will ever be able to figure out how to fix the thing so that it reads every 100 miles as 1 mile. > [@](#): > > **TeaElle** said: > It’d be nice if everyone could live a mile from their workplace, or could both live and work in areas and times that make public transporation convenient, but that’s not the case for many people. Ewww no. Even if I could live a mile from where I work, I wouldn’t want to. You know why? Because in Pennsylvania we have snow, and sometimes a lot of it. When work is closed and a skeleton crew has to be there, guess who’s considered ‘snow emergency workers’? Anyone living within a 10 mile radius of work. Guess who gets called up on Saturday and Sunday to go on in and fix something? The people who live close. And quite frankly, the closer I live to work the less I feel like I’ve left work when I go home. The idea of going home from work is having work be ‘somewhere else.’ If I can see work from house, work is too close. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/25 "2004-11-18T13:30:31Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > Perhaps a long-term benefit my result from such a tax, since it would discourage suburban sprawl no matter what kind of cars people drive. What’s the difference between a ‘developer’ and an ‘environmentalist’? A ‘developer’ wants to build houses in the country. An ‘environmentalist’ already _has_ a house in the country. 😃 [sub]Actually, the joke is ‘forest’ or ‘wilderness’ instead of ‘country’. But I thought ‘country’ worked better in this thread. 😉 [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/26 "2004-11-18T13:59:30Z")
> [@Merkwurdigliebe](#): > > Or you could have a simple GPS system that would report the GPS location at engine start and stop so you could determine start and endpoints that would be used to extract tax information. I think the untintended consqeuence from this would be people taking their kids to the stores so the kids can wait in the car with the engine running, then taking it home again before stopping the engine, recording start and endpoints that are only a few yards apart. If the taxes are sufficiently high, it may be worth idling away a buck or two’s worth of gas while you run your errands. The pollution problem could get _worse_ as a result. And if it’s not practical to leave the kids in the car, a new industry could arise: car babysitters! We’ll sit in the car and listen to the radio while you do your errands. Heck, you could hire a student to do his/her homework while you’re at the barber. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/27 "2004-11-18T14:48:58Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > What’s wrong with a gas tax? It doesn’t give the government an excuse to monitor your movements. The fact that this proposal is obviously unsuited this proposal is for its declared purpose invites suspicion as to its **real** purpose. If this be conspiracy theory, make the most of it. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/28 "2004-11-18T16:19:03Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > First they came for the SUVs > … > Then they came for my feet > and there was no where to run > because the goverment took my _feet_, dammit! GEEZ! > > 😛 Shrug. Why give me that “they’re coming to get me” quote, when in a similar tax situation on a different “product”, I was told to quit whining and take it because nobody else cares? That was my sarcasm. The concept is clear. You get the support you give others. I get told to deal with it, then I get to tell the next guy and so on. I fully expect that either this mileage tax will go through, or the regular sales tax will be raised to a usurious level. When the money gets wasted (on administration or junkets) or sits idle (while the state makes interest off it), and people complain, I’ll tell 'em to quit whining about it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/29 "2004-11-18T17:28:41Z")
If the tax goes through, I think I’ll consider moving as close to California as I can without actually living in California. Fill ups with paying _any_ tax! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/30 "2004-11-18T18:26:43Z")
**SteveG1** , your argument is off-point. People need to be able to move around, and for most people – especially in California – that means motor vehicles. No one needs to be able to smoke. You’re trying to compare apples and oranges and complaining that no one else is willing to, and it makes no sense. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/31 "2004-11-18T19:55:50Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Taxing by the mile encourages the government to increase throughput on the roads. Right now they collect taxes while vehicles are burning fuel while sitting in traffic jams. With a mileage tax, only distance travelled matters, so the state gains nothing from traffic jams. This is the only argument I can see in this entire thread that makes any sort of sense, and I agree with you that the negatives outweigh it by a longshot. You’d have to be _awfully_ cynical to believe that the state government would deliberately _increase_ congestion just to fill the coffers, and wouldn’t already be motivated to decrease congestion as much as possible. And as already pointed out, what exactly would they do at this stage of the game anyway? Nuke L.A. and start over? Yeah, this strikes me as an extremely poor idea that would only benefit gas-guzzlers. ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/32 "2004-11-18T20:50:58Z")
I wonder what the trucking industry thinks about this proposal? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Yeticus\_Rex](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a698b9/32.png) [@Yeticus\_Rex](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yeticus_Rex)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/33 "2004-11-18T20:55:23Z")
Should we also put up toll booths at every road that crosses the stateline so we can surcharge the tourists or bolt on their own GPS unit and bill’em later…naw, just give us your credit card number. Trust us, we know what we’re doing. :rolleyes: Naw, make them park their cars in a huge lot and issue mopeds to them! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/34 "2004-11-18T21:51:19Z")
The new DMV head who has made this idiotic proposal has as much as said the reason is fear of loss of revenue due to the increasing popularity of hybrid vehicles. I don’t like LA sprawl anymore than the next person. Hell, I can drive along any road for 50 miles from my house and never be more than 500 yards from a mall, an oil refinery, or a housing tract, fer cryin’ out loud. But the alternative, as many forget, is to build a lot of closely-spaced high-rises in an earthquake zone. Umm, I’ll take the sprawl. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/35 "2004-11-18T22:05:32Z")
I think it’s an incredibly idiotic idea, quite frankly. There’s no penalty for driving a gas-guzzling polluter; a Hummer pays as much as a Prius, for crying out loud. Plus, the idea of having Big Brother watching my every move gives me more than a little case of the creeps. No, rather, it fills me with disgust, and makes me want to put webcams in every room of every CA legislator’s house, so we can all ogle them in turn, and they can see how it feels. Morons. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/36 "2004-11-18T22:13:53Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Shrug. Why give me that “they’re coming to get me” quote, when in a similar tax situation on a different “product”, I was told to quit whining and take it because nobody else cares? That was my sarcasm. Geez, pal, did you leave your sense of humour in the glove compartment when you sold your last car? ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2004, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/37 "2004-11-18T22:37:34Z")
> [@Loopydude](#): > > a Hummer pays as much as a Prius, for crying out loud. Apparently, this is a great idea because all those damn Prius owners are trying to cheat CA out of its gas tax revenue. The nerve of them, buying a highly efficient and environmentally friendly car. They should all be out there buying more Hummers. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/38 "2004-11-19T00:23:37Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > For a given car a gasoline tax is a mileage tax isn’t it? The more miles you drive the more fuel you use and the more tax you pay. > > This looks like a way to raise taxes on gasoline without appearing to raise taxes on gasoline, thus fulfilling Arnie’s vow not to raise taxes. > > Hmph!. Last I heard, Arnie, who drives a Hummer, had not come out with a position on this. Gee, I wonder why. ---
**Author:** ![BobT](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e8cbc/32.png) [@BobT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobT)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/39 "2004-11-19T02:56:33Z")
I would say that this idea isn’t before the Legislature in California. It is just an idea by the newly appointed head of the California DMV. Its chances of being passed by the current legislature hover somewhere below zero ---
**Author:** ![Jinx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Jinx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jinx)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2004, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306/40 "2004-11-19T03:15:27Z")
> [@Spectre of Pithecanthropus](#): > > There’s a proposal afoot in the California legislature to scrap the gasoline tax in favor of a tax on miles driven. The mileage would be tallied by a tracking device which would transmit data to a GPS… If the people of CA had any brains, they’d realize that paying a gas tax IS a tax per mile sans Big brother tracking you. Supposedly, this latest proposal is to replace the gas tax. Hence, in theory, it’d be a wash. But, in practice, this is BS! It’s simply data waiting to be collected by Big Brother! And, you know Big Bro ain’t gonna just give up that gas tax, either! 😉 It’s down-right scary. What the hell will gov think up next? Why not just brand a bar code on our necks? - Jinx [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-driven-tax-instead-of-a-gas-tax/275306.md?page=3)