# Miles O'Brien's position on Deep Space Nine. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 6, 2014, 10:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649 "2014-02-06T10:22:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/61 "2014-02-08T16:38:04Z")
And now we can talk about positions… ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/62 "2014-02-09T02:13:34Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > And now we can talk about positions… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/63 "2014-02-09T02:15:41Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And Beverly does get her own ship eventually. A hospital ship, yes, but certainly **not** a warship or exploration vessel, and certainly \*\*NOT \*\*before she’s undergone a Command training course, I’d wager. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/64 "2014-02-09T02:17:46Z")
> [@AncientHumanoid](#): > > In the case of Yeoman Colt, it was a pRetty officer. Female urges, too? Rowr! Lock me up on Talos IV with HER in my cage! When I was in junior high, I had the hots for Rand, but even she was outclassed by Smith. **GRRRRRRROWARRRRRRRRR!!!**! 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/65 "2014-02-09T02:24:28Z")
Better than LaForge? Hardly. Better written than LaForge? Certainly. While Star Trek: TNG did allow an African American actor to become the most important member of the cast (Michael Dorn’s Worf) he was also not human. The writers didn’t seem to know what to do with Geordi for most episodes. Unfortunately, the same thing occurred with Tuvok on Voyager and Ensign Mayweather on Enterprise. They assembled a diverse cast, then they simply wrote stories which didn’t exploit that diversity. If Avery Brooks hadn’t been the lead, the same thing probably would have occurred on Deep Sleep 9. Star Trek: The “future” apparently consists primarily of White Europeans and their descendants. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/66 "2014-02-09T02:51:57Z")
And Smith was outclassed by Ross: > **[Teresa Ross](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Teresa_Ross)** > > Yeoman Teresa Ross was a female Human Starfleet enlisted crewmember in the 23rd century. Ross served in the operations division aboard the USS Enterprise in 2267 under the command of Captain James T. Kirk, during a historic five-year mission that the... ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/67 "2014-02-09T04:30:48Z")
> [@Mister\_Rik](#): > > I can’t say for certain, but the worst I could say about Barclay was that he suffered from some degree of Asperger’s Syndrome. Barclay was basically a very socially-awkward guy who was lacking in self-confidence. He was professionally competent at his job, but turned into a basket case when he was forced into social interaction. I don’t think there was anything significantly wrong with Barclay either. I just think that, with his anxiety level in the transporter episode, a psychiatrist probably would have given him a minor tranquilizer, especially since those seem so much safer in the future. Troi was perfectly fine using a placebo effect rather than trying to actually treat his anxiety. I don’t think he had Asperger’s, though. He was too socially adept when he felt comfortable. I think he just had social anxiety disorder. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/68 "2014-02-09T05:12:06Z")
Barclay had holodiction, obviously. You may recall Data donned a red uniform when Jellico removed Riker from the XO slot and substituted Data in the two-parter “Chain of Command” (third photo here): [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chain\_of\_Command,\_Part\_II\_(episode)](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chain_of_Command,_Part_II_(episode)). It was underlining the fact that he had left Operations and joined the Command dept. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/69 "2014-02-09T08:06:30Z")
LaForge was there to be Data’s foil. Data was a machine who wanted to become more human, LaForge was a human who was most comfortable with machines. This is highlighted, perhaps, by the machine he depended on to be able to see. It’s also worth noting that while LaForge has had to do far more outlandish things as an engineer, this might be mainly because most of O’Brien’s engineering was done on a relatively small scale (he kept the transporters running) or on a space station that never went anywhere, and never had to escape from unusual situations). I’d say O’Brien is probably a fairly typical engineer, as far as Starfleet is concerned. Recall the Dominion officer who once declared, only half-jokingly, that Starfleet engineers could turn rocks into replicators. If the Klingon Empire is built on combat prowess, and the Romulan Empire on subterfuge, then the Federation is built on industrious, brilliant engineers and problem solvers. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/70 "2014-02-09T17:16:02Z")
And God bless 'em! ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/71 "2014-02-10T17:32:43Z")
> [@urban1a](#): > > I never had a problem with O’Brien being a chief and I assumed that he was like ‘Chief of the Boat’ in the Navy; the highest ranking enlisted man, and I guess that is what he turned out to be on DS9. > > However, where are all of the other enlisted men? The only possible ones I can think of are the ‘red shirts’ on ST-TOS. The cannon fodder they sent down to the surface first, but I believe that those were always addressed as ensign or something; officers anyway. > > Bob There were clearly other enlisted men on DS9, at least; it’s explicit that the engineers working for O’Brien are not officers. Munoz, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/72 "2014-02-10T19:24:51Z")
Nog when he is commissioned is. Although I perfer to fanwank it as training. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/73 "2014-02-10T19:36:04Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Nog when he is commissioned is. Although I perfer to fanwank it as training. Nog didn’t work for O’Brien, except maybe as a cadet. You may be thinking of his father Rom, who became a Bajoran maintenance worker under O’Brien. Nog received a field commission as a cadet to participate in the Dominion War where he was a bridge officer on the _Defiant_, among other things. ---
**Author:** ![Osiris\_the\_1st](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9de0a6/32.png) [@Osiris\_the\_1st](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Osiris_the_1st)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/74 "2014-02-10T19:53:46Z")
> [@terentii](#): > > From what was said on _ **TNG** _, we can assume there are two kinds of personnel in Starfleet: commissioned officers, who graduated from the Academy, and enlisteds, who did not [“The Drumhead”]. Presumably there was a table of ranks for enlisted personnel, but SFAIK it was never gone into in detail. > > This is, BTW, at odds with _ **TOS** _, where the Writer’s Guide stated clearly that everyone on board the _Enterprise_ was a qualified astronaut and therefore an officer, and that the “enlisted men” category did not exist. While TNG and the other later day Star Treks made it seem that all officers had to go throught the academy TOS McCoy did not. He went to Ol’ Miss. Naturally Abrams, et al felt that had to change for the reboot. ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/75 "2014-02-10T20:16:12Z")
> [@Osiris\_the\_1st](#): > > While TNG and the other later day Star Treks made it seem that all officers had to go throught the academy TOS McCoy did not. He went to Ol’ Miss. Quite right; he volunteered for the service. As a qualified MD with long experience and few family ties, Starfleet was probably glad to have him. He probably went through basic training and indoctrination as Hawkeye et al. did on _MAS_H\*\*\*. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/76 "2014-02-10T20:25:38Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > Barclay had holodiction, obviously. > > You may recall Data donned a red uniform when Jellico removed Riker from the XO slot and substituted Data in the two-parter “Chain of Command” (third photo here): [http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chain\_of\_Command,\_Part\_II\_(episode)](http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Chain_of_Command,_Part_II_(episode)). It was underlining the fact that he had left Operations and joined the Command dept. My understanding was that, technically, he was in both, and thus got a choice in what color to wear. Under Jellico, he was primarily the XO and not an Operations officer, so he switched to red. (whether his choice or Jellico’s, I do not know.) ---
**Author:** ![Loopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loopus/32/15343_2.png) [@Loopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopus)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/77 "2014-02-10T21:15:46Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > My understanding was that, technically, he was in both, and thus got a choice in what color to wear. Under Jellico, he was primarily the XO and not an Operations officer, so he switched to red. (whether his choice or Jellico’s, I do not know.) Considering what a stickler for protocol Jellico was, it was probably him. He was the person who finally made Troi wear a uniform while on duty rather than a dress or catsuit (Which she actually looked better in - the uniform, I mean). ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/78 "2014-02-10T21:30:18Z")
> [@Loopus](#): > > (Which she actually looked better in - the uniform, I mean). Agreed. Though I thought it was odd that Troi’s blue uniform wasn’t the same shade as all the other blue uniforms - it was noticeably brighter. I wonder if the “regular” blue color just looked really bad on her (kind of how I look downright ill in a tan-colored shirt). ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/79 "2014-02-10T22:22:08Z")
On TNG O’Brien had a ideal position: major enough that he didn’t get killed (a la crewman newman), but minor enough that he rarely was in danger (unlike the main cast) Brian ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 9:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649/80 "2014-02-11T09:45:34Z")
> [@N9IWP](#): > > On TNG O’Brien had a ideal position: major enough that he didn’t get killed (a la crewman newman), but minor enough that he rarely was in danger (unlike the main cast) On TNG, yes. But on DS9 he became the most tortured man in the history of Trek. He was variously (and in some cases repeatedly) injured, kidnapped, tortured, put on show trials (at least twice), imprisoned (in one case for a fully served life sentence), and threatened with execution. He suffered the humiliation of awkwardness of having his fetal child removed from his wife and reimplanted in someone else, and of being impersonated by a hostile shapeshifter who ran amok on the station for months. His young daughter became separated from him; by the time they were reunited she had become completely feral and irreversibly developmentally stunted. And to top it all off, he was chronically overworked, with station systems constantly breaking down and Sisko giving him unrealistic deadlines to fix them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/miles-obriens-position-on-deep-space-nine/680649.md?page=5)