# Military chaplains and killing **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 19, 2003, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-chaplains-and-killing/220019 "2003-12-19T18:18:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kmg365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@kmg365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmg365)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-chaplains-and-killing/220019/21 "2003-12-20T19:50:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mangeorge \* > \*\*Sometimes the oath is sworn outside the reality of that promise, or without any real opportunity to refuse the oath. And the military _can_ sell the kid a bill of goods. Maybe it’s not the girl scouts, but those recruitment commercials are full of bullshit. Many enlistees don’t make the grade. That’s no reason, IMO, to shame them for life. \*\* True true. Enlisted members, especially in the U.S. military anyway, rarely have any idea what they’re getting into when they take the oath during the induction ceremony at a MEPS (Military Entracnce & Processing Station) right after signing an eight-year enlistment contract – which occurs sometimes months before they ever show up for basic training. And when and if the average private makes the grade by completing basic training and AIT (Advanced Individual Training), the oath which he swore “to uphold and defend the constitution of the United States of America” is at best a dim memory. I know from experience, the main motivation for the people I graduated basic training and infantry school with was to get all the college benefits possible via the G.I. Bill, and get all the high-speed – and invariably useless training available – in order to show off the badges. But this was 1988 and I digress. Point is, that few recruits are actively thinking about how to “uphold and defend the constitution” b/c any memory of making such an oath is so far removed from reality. I personally think it would have made a better impact on us as soldiers if we had been required to reaffirm that oath – in uniform – upon completion of our initial training. This simple gesture could’ve gone a long way in instilling a sense of duty, but for some reason – at least in the U.S. Army – this is not done. Unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![kmg365](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ec9cab/32.png) [@kmg365](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kmg365)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-chaplains-and-killing/220019/22 "2003-12-20T19:58:54Z")
Oh, I also wanted to add that among enlisted members of the U.S. Armed Forces that unless one really knows what they’re getting into and are making a duly informed choice, taking the Oath is oftentimes best likened to a _Hobson’s Choice._ All the more unfortunate. ---
**Author:** ![Billdo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/billdo/32/315_2.png) [@Billdo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Billdo)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-chaplains-and-killing/220019/23 "2003-12-20T21:21:38Z")
With regard to conscientious objectors in the military, in April there was an extensive discussion of this subject in the thread [Marine petitions for conscientious objector status; didn’t know Marines were violent](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?&threadid=174974). Two things about that thread that I found particularly interesting were the links to the actual U.S. Military CO regulations on page 3 of the thread and **UncleBill** ’s discussion of his experiences with two Marines seeking CO status on the eve of the first Gulf War. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2003, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-chaplains-and-killing/220019/24 "2003-12-20T23:56:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by SeekingTruth \* > **Given that the US hasn’t had a draft in 30 years or so, can we all agree that that lately servicemen are voluntary?** Per the OP, the question related to a piece of fiction which may or may not be about contemporary soldiers. FISH [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-chaplains-and-killing/220019.md?page=1)