# Military Courts: Any power over civilians? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 7, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-courts-any-power-over-civilians/263485 "2004-09-07T14:04:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-courts-any-power-over-civilians/263485/1 "2004-09-07T14:04:16Z")
Pretty much what the title asks. I mean, I know the military can try and punish their own personnel, but what about civilians? Suppose a civilian committed some crime on a military base (robbed the store, say) or against a member of the military (rape, say), would the civilian be tried by the military or by regular civilian courts? Would every crime automatically be a federal offense? Also, what if the civilian was simply a witness to a crime the military wanted to try a service member for. Could the civilian be compelled to testify? What if he simply didn’t show up for the trial? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-courts-any-power-over-civilians/263485/2 "2004-09-07T14:07:41Z")
There is fairly detailed case law regarding this, and a significant element of it lies in whether access to the normal “Article III” court system is available – martial law during an insurrection, or an overseas base as opposed to one stateside, being examples where it would not be. Perhaps a Doper-at-law or someone with knowledge of the UCMJ could expand on this, as I don’t know the particulars beyond what I said. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-courts-any-power-over-civilians/263485/3 "2004-09-07T15:18:01Z")
In times of a declared war, civilians who are accompanying the armed forces may be tried by court martial under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Also, subject to a treaty or other international agreement, those who are within a US military base overseas. [UCMJ: Persons who are subject to this chapter](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/10/802.html) ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-courts-any-power-over-civilians/263485/4 "2004-09-07T15:30:28Z")
Typically in my day, a civilian getting into trouble on a US base on US territory would be arrested by the military police and turned over to the county judiciary for prosecution. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-courts-any-power-over-civilians/263485/5 "2004-09-07T15:31:20Z")
The UCMJ is (at least on this point) fair-to-middling screwed up. Civilians who accompany the military in the theater of operations (I am going from memory here) during a declared war are liable. Of course we have not had a declared war in about a long time. The British are not so limited. Their journalists, contractors and other camp followers undergo a ceremony and sign a statement that they (upon entering the theatre of operations) are subject to the Queen’s Regulations. In a more limited sense, military courts do have power of subpoena and can compel a civilian to testify in the same way any federal court can. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-courts-any-power-over-civilians/263485/6 "2004-09-07T21:16:03Z")
I’d sure like to know what is done if the reverse is the case–a military person–soldier, sailor, airman, Marine–who violates a civilian law, or commits a non-criminal tort, in civilian territory. Are such people under civilian jurisdiction, or military jurisdiction, or both? (The closest to this I ever heard of was the movie _Town Without Pity.)_ ☹ Incidentally, something such as is mentioned in the OP happened once, to my knowledge. A serious, seasoned group of bank robbers planned to rob a bank and then escape the police by speeding onto the Florida Turnpike–ignoring the toll booth. Everything went all right until they got to the “toollbooth” and sped by. It wasn’t a tollbooth. It was a guard shack at the entrance to an Air Force Base. 😃