# Military Dopers: Do soldiers/marines/airmen like Obama's military policy?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [March 12, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225 "2009-03-12T17:35:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/1 "2009-03-12T17:35:16Z")
Do they like him as a leader? If not, why not?
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### Author:  [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2009, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/2 "2009-03-12T17:53:43Z")
What has he done so far that they could base their opinion on?
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### Author:  [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/3 "2009-03-12T17:54:11Z")
This is an interesting and important question to which I don’t have a specific answer but do have some observations. First of all Obama has done a lot to reach out to the military through his top picks especially Jones and Blair. He has also made a point of seeking the advice of another retired general Scowcroft.
This ties into another point: most military officers in the US today probably belong to the realist school of international affairs: the elder Bush, Scowcroft, Powell etc. As these names suggest this school is associated more with Republicans. Yet Bush2 abandoned these ideas wholesale and hitched his wagons with the neo-cons who are widely despised by military types. This leaves an opening for a Democratic president to co-opt some of these realists including members of the military.
That is exactly what I think Obama is doing and if he succeeds he will make the Democrats the natural party of governance in the US even as the Republicans descend further and further into idiocy and extremism.
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2009, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/4 "2009-03-12T18:06:20Z")
Telemark, he’s done quite a bit in a very short time. The reason I started this thread is due to this link my BIL sent me: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIHz5tevLAw&eurl](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIHz5tevLAw&eurl)
My take on this is that the Bush clip in the beginning was shortly after 9/11 when everyone was all gung ho and hell-bent. The Obama portion is how military personnel are supposed to behave when they are with the Commander in Chief.
Am I close? I’ve got no actual experience with these things.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2009, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/5 "2009-03-12T18:54:46Z")
Easiest refutation is to find a clip of a military audience cheering Obama and politely applauding Bush, but anyone who thinks the first video proves something won’t be convinced by that or anything else.
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2009, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/6 "2009-03-12T19:04:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#):
>
> Easiest refutation is to find a clip of a military audience cheering Obama and politely applauding Bush, but anyone who thinks the first video proves something won’t be convinced by that or anything else.
You’re right. If it wouldn’t be so time consuming, I might do that, but he’s not worth the effort.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2009, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/7 "2009-03-12T21:16:27Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> Telemark, he’s done quite a bit in a very short time. The reason I started this thread is due to this link my BIL sent me: [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIHz5tevLAw&eurl](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIHz5tevLAw&eurl)
>
> My take on this is that the Bush clip in the beginning was shortly after 9/11 when everyone was all gung ho and hell-bent. The Obama portion is how military personnel are supposed to behave when they are with the Commander in Chief.
>
> Am I close? I’ve got no actual experience with these things.
Not close - the Bush clip was from his visit to the al-Asad airbase in Anbar province in September, 2007.
I don’t think it proves much overall, but you ought to know.
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### Author:  [@nani](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nani)
#### Post date: [March 12, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/8 "2009-03-12T23:05:27Z")
I’ve recently had an opportunity to talk to several Iraq and Afghanistan veterans, and also hear them share their experiences, not just with war, but with coming home, and having to deal with PTSD and the wounds of war.
One of the great travesties of the Bush administration, and also of the congresses that served during his time in office, was the way that we treated our combat veterans. I believe it is even worse than the way Vietnam veterans were treated. If President Obama can change that, or if he even tries to change that, then I think that will go a long, long way towards ingratiating himself to the military.
I would heavily recommend anyone that is interested in the men and women that are serving our country in combat look at Aaron Glantz’s book, [The War Comes Home: Washington’s Battle Against America’s Veterans](http://www.aaronglantz.com/book.htm).
It is so weird to see a culture, not just among Republicans but Democrats as well, that deifies our soldiers and then treats them like lepers when they come home, if they even acknowledge them. [1000 soldiers](http://www.warcomeshome.org/files/Dr_Ira_Katz_shh.pdf) (warning: pdf) in the care of the VA try to kill themselves each month. No one seems to care.
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### Author:  [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/9 "2009-03-13T10:31:53Z")
The most obvious thing to me is that the crowd in the Bush video is standing at ease, outdoors, and was treated to a short congratulatory speech. Obama spoke indoors, the marines were at attention when he came in, and his speech was sober, formal, and nearly 10 minutes long. Of course the response was different.
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### Author:  [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/10 "2009-03-13T11:44:03Z")
Obama hasn’t set any policy that effects the military that I’m aware of. From my time in theatre and in CONUS, I can say from experience that most really liked President Bush, and can’t see much of a difference yet. For the average man on the ground, the President in the Boss, and they generally can’t tell one from the other, unless he’s a real outlier, like Clinton was.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/11 "2009-03-13T17:36:49Z")
> [@spifflog](#):
>
> …like Clinton was.
It is difficult to explain to people how much Clinton was disliked by the active-duty military. Partisan Democrats tend to dismiss this as a partisan issue - never mind that many registered Democrats I served with also regarded Clinton with disgust.
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### Author:  [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/12 "2009-03-13T18:12:58Z")
So far, I’ve heard one good comment (“my president”) and a ton of neutral comments. No negatives yet. We’ll have to wait til he does something to affect us. Even then, it’ll be the typical “Follow your orders” and any negative comments will be short. It’s not like Democrats are universally hated in the military; there’s a bunch of them. You can’t get away with bashing someone that not everyone dislikes…like you can with Al Qaeda.
That video is classic propaganda, btw. The Marines were in completely different situations. As was said, one group was at ease for a laudatory visit, the other at attention for a formal address.
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/13 "2009-03-13T18:24:44Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#):
>
> Not close - the Bush clip was from his visit to the al-Asad airbase in Anbar province in September, 2007.
>
> I don’t think it proves much overall, but you ought to know.
Thanks!
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/14 "2009-03-13T18:33:43Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#):
>
> It is difficult to explain to people how much Clinton was disliked by the active-duty military. Partisan Democrats tend to dismiss this as a partisan issue - never mind that many registered Democrats I served with also regarded Clinton with disgust.
Why?
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/15 "2009-03-13T18:36:25Z")
> [@spifflog](#):
>
> Obama hasn’t set any policy that effects the military that I’m aware of. From my time in theatre and in CONUS, I can say from experience that most really liked President Bush, and can’t see much of a difference yet. For the average man on the ground, the President in the Boss, and they generally can’t tell one from the other, unless he’s a real outlier, like Clinton was.
> **[Military Daily News](https://www.military.com/daily-news?wh=benefits)**
>
> Daily updates of everything that you need know about what is going on in the military community and abroad including military gear and equipment, breaking news, international news and more.
> [@](#):
>
> “I applaud the Administration’s commitment to high priority areas of interest, which are shared by this Committee, including caring for our returning service members, improving the VA’s ability to provide mental heath care and services, addressing homelessness among veterans, and not forgetting the veterans of previous generations,” said Chairman Filner. “We are committed to assisting the VA in their goal of turning the VA into a model organization. I am confident that under Secretary Shinseki’s leadership the needs of veterans will be the top priority.”
Sounds like a good start to me.
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### Author:  [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/16 "2009-03-13T18:42:25Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> Why?
He was a Democrat, dodged the draft, wrote in a letter he loathed the military, ran against two war heroes, gays in the military, women in combat, cut military spending, was chased out of Somalia, and was a very undisciplined person.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/17 "2009-03-13T18:55:54Z")
Pretty much. One or two of these things wouldn’t have been a problem - roll them up in a big Bill-sized package and you have issues.
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### Author:  [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/18 "2009-03-13T19:02:47Z")
> [@puddleglum](#):
>
> He was a Democrat, dodged the draft, wrote in a letter he loathed the military, ran against two war heroes, gays in the military, women in combat, cut military spending, was chased out of Somalia, and was a very undisciplined person.
. . . and committed adultery and lied about it, which is bad news in the military. All these actions were indicative of the whole “slick willy” personal that just rubbed the military wrong.
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### Author:  [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/19 "2009-03-13T22:04:04Z")
> [@puddleglum](#):
>
> He was a Democrat, dodged the draft, wrote in a letter he loathed the military, ran against two war heroes, gays in the military, women in combat, cut military spending, was chased out of Somalia, and was a very undisciplined person.
Seriously? _Seriously?_ Huh.
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### Author:  [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)
#### Post date: [March 13, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-dopers-do-soldiers-marines-airmen-like-obamas-military-policy/489225/20 "2009-03-13T22:37:57Z")
> [@Kalhoun](#):
>
> Seriously? _Seriously?_ Huh.
Why would this be hard for you to understand?
I served my entire enlistment under Clinton - I never saw an order come down the pike that was disobeyed. That doesn’t mean that he was a popular guy, or that the military necessarily trusted him or thought that he had their interests at heart.
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