# Military Fuel Consumption **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 22, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466 "2005-10-22T23:46:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2005, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/1 "2005-10-22T23:46:15Z")
What is the consumption of fuel by the Military? How does it compare to the consumption of the entire civilian population of America? How much oil is being used to fuel Humvees, F-16s, M1A1s and Destroyers? Basically I am trying to get an idea of a cost benefit analysis for this war. I want to see if it’s even a good idea based upon purely economic terms. Erek ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/2 "2005-10-23T01:35:27Z")
According to the CIA world factbook, Iraq’s proven reserves = 112 billion barrels of oil. The US in total uses about 19 million barrels a day, equalling 7 billion barrels of oil a year. Will check back when I can find specific figures for just the military. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/3 "2005-10-23T09:25:55Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Basically I am trying to get an idea of a cost benefit analysis for this war. I want to see if it’s even a good idea based upon purely economic terms. Remember to add in that we’re going to have to pay for the oil anyway. Perhaps you might also consider that it just might not be being fought for oil. ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/4 "2005-10-23T16:13:26Z")
Outstanding. Also, see if you can go back and figure the numbers for 1945 and figure out if it was “cost-efficient” to get rid of Hitler. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BMax](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bmax/32/4267_2.png) [@BMax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMax)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/5 "2005-10-23T17:01:36Z")
> [@hermann](#): > > Outstanding. Also, see if you can go back and figure the numbers for 1945 and figure out if it was “cost-efficient” to get rid of Hitler. :rolleyes: Godwinized in 4 posts! Is that some kind of record? Maybe the guy would like a real answer to his real question before he gets shut down for being unamerican in GQ. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/6 "2005-10-23T17:16:32Z")
> [@hermann](#): > > Outstanding. Also, see if you can go back and figure the numbers for 1945 and figure out if it was “cost-efficient” to get rid of Hitler. :rolleyes: I wonder if in 2010 it will be cost-efficient to get rid of Bush. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/7 "2005-10-23T17:24:54Z")
Actually yes it was quite cost-efficient to get rid of Hitler. American companies sold goods to both sides. You know Fanta? That’s the brand Coca Cola created to sell Coke to Nazi Germany. Also with the Marshall Plan, we were able to rebuild both Europe and Japan to be more amiable to the American economic system. So that’s a lot of profit. Then there is the ideological idea, that having Hitler lead the world is just a really bad idea. On the other hand, Saddam Hussein was kind of shoved in his little hole and that was never actually a danger. Then after that, we actually won the hearts and minds of Europe in WWII instead of making them madder and madder at us like we are doing now. So to put it in simple terms that you might be able to understand, getting rid of Hitler had many pros that getting rid of Saddam did not, before economics even enters the picture. The war in Iraq is a complete waste of time and resources, I’m just wondering if it’s worth it economically at all, or if it’s just a bad idea all around that did nothing but detriment to the United States. The price of gas per barrel is almost three times what it was in 2001. The further I go along, the more convinced I am that supporters of the war are purely ignorant. That it’s not even a difference of opinion, it’s that they are stupid uneducated hicks, every last one of them. Erek ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/8 "2005-10-23T17:30:35Z")
I guess I should have said “defeat Germany and Japan”. The thing is, fighting to win a war isn’t like going to the store and buying something, then saying “Well, let’s see if this was worth it.” If you figured the cost of the Revolutionary War you might decide it would have saved us money to stay under the Crown, too. Oh, and there is no need to worry about Bush in 2010 since that will be 2 years after he leaves office. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/9 "2005-10-23T19:07:34Z")
> [@](#): > > So to put it in simple terms that you might be able to understand, getting rid of Hitler had many pros that getting rid of Saddam did not, before economics even enters the picture. The war in Iraq is a complete waste of time and resources, That is your opinion, which for one Bill Clinton seems to disagree with: > [@](#): > > “If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.” --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998 From: [http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1051684/posts](http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1051684/posts) And from that same cite, the other clinton speaks: > [@](#): > > Speaking about the WMD’s, “The consensus was the same, from the Clinton administration to the Bush administration, It was the same intelligence belief that our allies and friends around the world shared.” -Senator Hillary Clinton, April 20, 2004 on Larry King Live I assume we can agree that Bush also warned us about WMD’s > [@](#): > > The further I go along, the more convinced I am that supporters of the war are purely ignorant. Thanks for the insult, but I really can’t understand why people can’t see the turn around of the democratic party (in general) is clearly ONLY poliltically motivated. Basically the world knew Sadam had WMD (quotes from some world leaders at the above cite also). Perhaps Sadam fooled everyone, just like a criminal running from the cops fooling the cops into believing he has a gun. What did the criminal expect to happen? So this war is not about oil and recovery efficiencies, but it is a factor. Oil makes important to the free world, and more so for the lower classes, who really can’t afford high energy prices. It also allows S.H. a revenue stream to research WMD’s. If you want to see it as it costs us 1 gallon in tank fuel to liberate 100 gal of oil, feel free, but I contend your time may be better spend comparing apples to oranges. ---
**Author:** ![hermann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b487fb/32.png) [@hermann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hermann)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/10 "2005-10-23T19:41:49Z")
Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Rico](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rico/32/3582_2.png) [@Rico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rico)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/11 "2005-10-23T19:47:54Z")
\ OK, folks. Let me gas up this thread and motor it on over to Great Debates where you can have at it without the GQ constraints. It’s headed that way anyway. \ ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/12 "2005-10-23T20:25:46Z")
Hi, **Kanicbird**! I am sort of surprised to see you pedaling more or less the same line that got ripped to itty-bitty shreds in the [recent thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=340054) that you started but failed to even come back to defend. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/13 "2005-10-23T20:27:07Z")
> [@hermann](#): > > Hindsight is a wonderful thing, isn’t it? Many of us actually had the foresight not to believe all the lies that were being thrown at us. See the thread that I referenced in the last post. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/14 "2005-10-23T21:25:30Z")
**kanicbird** What do Democrats have to do with it? I didn’t single out republicans, I singled out supporters of the war. This country created Saddam Hussein, this country sold Saddam Hussein his weapons of mass destruction. This country overthrew a democratically elected Iranian government back in the 50s. This country paid Saddam Hussein to assassinate the Prime Minister of Iraq around the same time. Basically, all the reasons to go to war besides economic factors are bullshit IMO. I am trying to run a cost benefit analysis of the economic factors, to see if it’s a total and complete failure or not, because gas prices have risen. Arabs hate us more than they ever have, we’ve alienated a lot of countries, including Canada, who is going to start selling their oil to China. This war in Iraq I think fucked us over in the long run more than most people can even imagine right now. I am trying to see if there is anything good at all to come from it, something I highly doubt. We’ve already lost politically and ethically, I am trying to figure out whether or not we are going to come out behind economically as well. Erek ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/15 "2005-10-23T22:10:30Z")
Well, leaving aside the ridiculous question of whether or not the war was cost effective (what possible difference does it make?), to answer the question of the OP is not a GD but a GQ…i.e. how much fuel does the US military use. A sub question is how much has the military used in Iraq. [This](http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200505/bryce) requires registration, but: > [@](#): > > The Military > Gas Pains > One of the U.S. military’s greatest vulnerabilities in Iraq is its enormous appetite for fuel. The insurgents have figured this out > by Robert Bryce > > … > > he Department of Defense now has about 27,000 vehicles in Iraq—and every one of them gets lousy gas mileage. To power that fleet the Defense Logistics Agency must move huge quantities of fuel into the country in truck convoys from Kuwait, Turkey, and Jordan. All that fuel gives American soldiers a tremendous battlefield advantage (in communications, mobility, and firepower, among other things). But overseeing and carrying out this process requires the work of some 20,000 American soldiers and private contractors. Every day some 2,000 trucks leave Kuwait alone for various locales in Iraq. > > In addition to the challenges posed by the volume of fuel needed, the Army’s logisticians must deal with the sheer variety of fuels. Although the Pentagon has tried to reduce the number of fuels it consumes, and now relies primarily on a jet-fuel-like substance called JP-8, the Defense Energy Support Center is currently supplying fourteen kinds of fuel to U.S. troops in Iraq. Bottom line (from the article): ‘The US military now uses about 1.7 million gallons of fuel a day in Iraq’. Does that help? If we make more fuel available world wide does that make the war ok? If not, does that somehow make it wrong just because we lost money on it? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![AFAIKnow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a6a055/32.png) [@AFAIKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AFAIKnow)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/16 "2005-10-23T22:33:58Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Also with the Marshall Plan, we were able to rebuild both Europe and Japan to be more amiable to the American economic system. So that’s a lot of profit. Now, com on. You do understand that wasn’t all that popular back then. And who can say that all of th money will not ultimately profit the US with more amiable economic systems and security from the Mid-East countries. > **[Marshall Plan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan)** > > The Marshall Plan (officially the European Recovery Program, ERP) was an American initiative passed in 1948 for foreign aid to Western Europe. The United States transferred over $13 billion (equivalent of about $114 billion\[A\] in 2020\[B\]) in economic recovery programs to Western European economies after the end of World War II. Replacing an earlier proposal for a Morgenthau Plan, it operated for four years beginning on April 3, 1948. The goals of the United States were to rebuild war-torn regi Th... > [@](#): > > The administration felt that the plan would likely be unpopular among many Americans, and the speech was mainly directed at a European audience. In an attempt to keep the speech out of American papers journalists were not contacted, and on the same day Truman called a press conference to take away headlines. By contrast Acheson was dispatched to contact the European media, especially the British media, and the speech was read in its entirety on the BBC.[8] > [@](#): > > So to put it in simple terms that you might be able to understand, getting rid of Hitler had many pros that getting rid of Saddam did not, > > The war in Iraq is a complete waste of time and resources, Say that in about ten more years and people may think you have a clue what you are talking about. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/17 "2005-10-23T22:59:10Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > This country created Saddam Hussein, this country sold Saddam Hussein his weapons of mass destruction. This country overthrew a democratically elected Iranian government back in the 50s. This country paid Saddam Hussein to assassinate the Prime Minister of Iraq around the same time. Rhetorical bullshit. This country alone didn’t create Saddam. Nor did this country, alone, sell him weapons…especially weapons of mass destruction. This country alone didn’t overthrow a ‘democratically elected Iranian government’ either. Perhaps if you want to get to the bottom of ‘who is to blame’ you should look up what those vaunted Europeans had to do with the Middle East and how things got started there…or do you suppose history started only 50-60 years ago? If you disagree then lets see some cites to back some of that bullshit up. Even assuming you CAN…wtf does any of this have to do with your own OP? Is this just a general anti-American/anti-Iraqi war rant disguised as a question about fuel consumption? > [@mswas](#): > > Arabs hate us more than they ever have, we’ve alienated a lot of countries, including Canada, who is going to start selling their oil to China. This war in Iraq I think fucked us over in the long run more than most people can even imagine right now. I am trying to see if there is anything good at all to come from it, something I highly doubt. Again, rhetorical bullshit. Cite that Arabs hate us more today than they hated us in the past. As for alienating our close allies (including Canada) I’d say…well, we have to a certain extent but don’t go ape shit here. Canada sells oil on the world market…just like everyone else. If China buys it…who the fuck cares really? Canada isn’t going to stop selling oil to the US…nor is anyone else. As for whether or not this war in Iraq has fucked us over…well, time will tell. You are speculating what you THINK is going to happen. You don’t KNOW…no one does. I’m not a huge fan of the invasion, but I try and keep my raw speculations as just that…WAG’s. When you state something as fact about the future I have to ask how you know…and what the lotto numbers are going to be here in New Mexico next week. Tell me that and maybe I’ll take your WAG about the future a bit more seriously. Did you actually want to discuss fuel consumption of the US military? -XT ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/18 "2005-10-23T23:24:05Z")
**jshore** Actually No, just some political hacks. They have offered no proof that Clinton, Kerry were under durress when they claimed that S.H. had WMD. Just claiming they did does not change the past. If you want to beleive it, go ahead. > [@](#): > > kanicbird What do Democrats have to do with it? I didn’t single out republicans, I singled out supporters of the war. Emotion. I am pissed off as how dems turned on this war for purely political reasons. ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/19 "2005-10-23T23:34:24Z")
Well, **Kanicbird** , then you ought to have had no trouble destroying the arguments that those people **actually made** in the thread. Instead, you turned tail and fled. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466/20 "2005-10-24T00:08:57Z")
**xtisme** I wanted an answer which I got. I am of the opinion that this war is a complete wash. I’ve explained my position, I think that politically and ethically we are losing. We aren’t spreading democracy, that’s just propaganda. No one is trying to take Europe off the hook, but we played that game. We definitely created Saddam Hussein. If you want to see cites here’s a whole bunch of them: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6713204&postcount=32](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6713204&postcount=32) I just wanted to know what the fuel consumption of the military was. It seems pretty fucking pointless to me, and I wanted to see just how ridiculous the whole mess was. This war is HURTING America, it’s not helping us in any way as far as I can tell. We could have brokered a deal with Iraq not to invade Kuwait back in the day, we could have not pushed Iraq and Iran into war. We didn’t choose any of those methods. This war is patently ridiculous, it’s unecessary, and we created the monster ourselves. I’m tired of people trying to weasel out of it. I’m not anti-American, as far as I am concerned anyone who is FOR this war is Anti-American. People who say we need to accept that some of our liberties will be curtailed while we fight the war for ‘freedom’ are Anti-American. I’m pro-American. I am pro free speech, pro freedom of religion, I am anti people being arrested for choosing to do a recreational drug. In short I am pro-liberty, anyone that stops short of that is anti-American as far as I’m concerned. Of course you’ll get the idiot who only understands force who will think I’d like to force my views upon someone, and that’s certainly not true, because forcing your will on another human being is anti-liberty. We are the oppressor in this war, pure and simple, and America isn’t benefitting from it in any way other than the gestalt of fear, rage and jingoism. Erek [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-fuel-consumption/327466.md?page=2)