# Military on the Mexico border -- what am I missing? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 13, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278 "2009-03-13T00:55:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/21 "2009-03-13T16:34:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > It’s actually pretty common. [Kidnappings in Phoenix](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22614102/) have skyrocketed, though it’s usually people who are involved in the drug trade. It crosses the border all the time but it’s contained. > > One thing I guess people who haven’t been following this don’t understand is that the reason Mexico has deployed troops is because its law enforcement is compromised. Where they aren’t directly involved with the cartels they are terrified of the cartels. The cartels together have as many soldiers as the Mexican army just about. The US on the other hand is a whole different ball game. Our law enforcement is far more organized, has a lot more assets at its disposal, has much better information management and isn’t compromised by the cartels. I’m not saying we’re beholden to Mexico to provide law enforcement services, but wouldn’t it be in our own best interests, as well as humanitarian, to offer support to Mexico? Or would the government decline? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/22 "2009-03-13T16:46:10Z")
> [@RogueAOV](#): > > I find it absurd that we have so many checks etc etc on airports but any terrorist could fly/sail to Mexico and walk or drive into the states without checks. With the amount of drugs entering the country a day(no cite but to meet demand it must be alot) it surely would not be hard to get a bomb, or anyone into America.. Have you crossed the Mexican border into the USA recently? There are checks. In fact, you need proof of US Citizenship now (or a visa, etc). ---
**Author:** ![flood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@flood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flood)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/23 "2009-03-13T16:56:03Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Have you crossed the Mexican border into the USA recently? There are checks. In fact, you need proof of US Citizenship now (or a visa, etc). This is true. I remember when I used to go across all I needed was my DL. Last time I went over, I needed my Birth Certificate too. Next time I go, I’ll need a passport. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/24 "2009-03-13T17:05:05Z")
> [@flood](#): > > This is true. I remember when I used to go across all I needed was my DL. Last time I went over, I needed my Birth Certificate too. Next time I go, I’ll need a passport. Or a Passport Card. I suggest that everyone get one of these along with your passport. True, it’s only good for land travel into Mexico and Canada (etc), but it’s an add’l gov’t issued Photo ID. Your actual US Passport should be kept in a very secure place when not using it. But, I suggest you carry your Passport card in another place other than your wallet when doing any domestic air travel. Thus, if you lose your wallet and your DrLic, you now have another ID so they will let you board the plane. > **[U.S. Passports](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/passports.html/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html)** > > How to apply for or renew your U.S. passport if you live in United States ---
**Author:** ![flood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@flood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flood)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2009, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/25 "2009-03-13T17:15:09Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Or a Passport Card. I suggest that everyone get one of these along with your passport. True, it’s only good for land travel into Mexico and Canada (etc), but it’s an add’l gov’t issued Photo ID. Your actual US Passport should be kept in a very secure place when not using it. But, I suggest you carry your Passport card in another place other than your wallet when doing any domestic air travel. Thus, if you lose your wallet and your DrLic, you now have another ID so they will let you board the plane. > [U.S. Passports](http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3926.html) Ah, yes…the Passport Card. I forgot about that, and really that’s the one I should be taking over there. I’m adding that to my list of things that need to get done real soon. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/26 "2009-03-14T05:11:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Mexico is already invading the United States. No kidding? I was reading the paper today and you’d think they would have mentioned something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/27 "2009-03-14T05:19:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Kidnappings, drug sales, illegal firearm sales, smuggling, illegal border crossing are all criminal problems like I said before. There’s a strong argument to be made that we need a lot more police along the border but there’s no call for soldiers. It is no longer a police issue. Police agencies enforce laws. This HAS become a full-scale invasion. The invaders don’t have to wear uniforms. And there are news reports of Mexico dispatching para-military police to the border area. Any time a destabilized nation on our border dispatches huge numbers of military or para-military units to a common border with us, I believe we need to have disciplined, well-trained and well-equipped U.S. troops facing them across the border. I am talking about defending our nation and us. ---
**Author:** ![RogueAOV](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecb155/32.png) [@RogueAOV](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RogueAOV)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/28 "2009-03-14T05:22:09Z")
I do not think i was suggesting that there was no checks at the crossing points, i was stating that people crossing the border illegally are not going to go to the check points. A fence or random patrol is not going to stop a person wanting to get into the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/29 "2009-03-14T05:30:05Z")
> [@flood](#): > > This is true. I remember when I used to go across all I needed was my DL. Last time I went over, I needed my Birth Certificate too. Next time I go, I’ll need a passport. Must be a land-office business in pasports on the Mexico side of the border, then, because more than [300,000 citizens](http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/31/illegal.immigration/)of Mexico enter the U.S. every year. I do hope that no one has any real confidence in the ability of U.S. federal law enforcement agencies to “contain” or handle this problem. Remember how complacent we were back in August 2001? Frankly, I don’t feel all that safe right now. DEA, INS and Border Patrol are NOT up to the task, and we are about to find that out. ---
**Author:** ![flood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@flood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flood)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/30 "2009-03-14T05:39:27Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > No kidding? I was reading the paper today and you’d think they would have mentioned something like that. I don’t know what this is supposed to mean. I’m sure that the statement you quoted was hyperbolic, but it’s true in a sense. I guess I’m safe in assuming that you (and many others) didn’t hear about a failed grenade attack in a bar just outside of McAllen, Texas. That’s right–that happened on this side of the border. Now, the grenade failed to detonate because the second safety pin wasn’t pulled out (which is why you probably didn’t know about it) but it just as easily could have. If it had, would you say that it’s something that the local law enforcement would have been prepared to deal with? Probably so. But where do you begin to draw the line? There were three off-duty (American) police officers in that bar at the time the grenade was lobbed in there…it landed on a pool table and one of them grabbed it and lobbed it outside; I think it’s safe to say those officers were likely that grenade’s intended targets. There’s also the fact that another grenade that did not detonate was lobbed at the U.S. Consulate last October. Correct me if I’m wrong, but had that grenade had gone off it, wouldn’t that have been considered an act of war? I’m not saying that we should invade Mexico; in fact, that is probably the worst thing that we could possibly do. But clearly other steps need to be taken. Border Patrol isn’t up to the task (not their fault, of course). I won’t even get into the Treaty of Hidalgo. [http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-grenades\_13nat.ART.State.Edition1.4d52ff7.html](http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/nation/stories/DN-grenades_13nat.ART.State.Edition1.4d52ff7.html) ---
**Author:** ![flood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@flood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flood)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/31 "2009-03-14T05:53:24Z")
**Sunrazor** : Calderon began deploying soldiers to the borders back in 2007. Hell, I even remember bar hopping in Nuevo Laredo back in '03/'04 when all this was just heating up with soldiers on just about every corner downtown. I think we’ve just begun to see what’s really possible. From [here](http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mexico-arms-race15-2009mar15,0,229992.story?page=2): > [@](#): > > The fear of guerrilla warfare was compounded in February when 270 pounds of dynamite and several hundred electric detonators were stolen from a U.S. firm in the state of Durango. On Valentine’s Day, about 20 masked gunmen, led by a heavyset man wearing gold rings and chains, stormed the warehouse of a subsidiary of Austin Powder Co., an industrial explosives manufacturer, according to official accounts. They overpowered guards and emptied the warehouse. Two similar thefts were reported within four days in the same area. > > Although the Mexican army recovered most of the dynamite, the incident augurs an even bloodier trend, officials said. > > “There is only one reason to have bulk explosives,” said Thomas G. Mangan, spokesman in Phoenix for the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives. “An improvised explosive device. A car bomb.” ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/32 "2009-03-14T15:13:11Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t know what this is supposed to mean. I’m sure that the statement you quoted was hyperbolic, but it’s true in a sense. No, it’s not true in a sense. Mexico is not at war with the United States. There are a lot of Mexicans who have entered the country illegally and some of them are committing other crimes in this country. But these are crimes not acts of war. Keep in mind that despite all the hyperbole about a Mexican crime wave most of the crimes in America are still committed by Americans. If the armed forces take over law enforcement, then the logical next step is they should be used to fight the much larger problem of American criminals as well as Mexican criminals. Do you want soldiers fighting Americans in the streets? ---
**Author:** ![flood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@flood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flood)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/33 "2009-03-14T17:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > If the armed forces take over law enforcement, then the logical next step is they should be used to fight the much larger problem of American criminals as well as Mexican criminals. Do you want soldiers fighting Americans in the streets? That’s a nice straw man you’ve built yourself there. The soldiers that would (hypothetically) be deployed would act in a support role as reinforcement to the BP, INS, and DEA. I very much doubt that they would take up policing our streets, as local law enforcement appears to be (for the time being, anyway) up to it. As someone else in this thread already mentioned, that’s a far cry from the jackboots. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/34 "2009-03-14T18:32:38Z")
Didn’t we try putting military on the border 10 or 20 years ago? IIRC, they shot and killed some kid who was herding goats, and that put an end to it. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/35 "2009-03-14T21:05:14Z")
> [@flood](#): > > There’s also the fact that another grenade that did not detonate was lobbed at the U.S. Consulate last October. Correct me if I’m wrong, but had that grenade had gone off it, wouldn’t that have been considered an act of war? I don’t see how. If some gangster lobbed a grenade at an embassy that would just be a criminal act. ---
**Author:** ![Bender44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b487fb/32.png) [@Bender44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bender44)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/36 "2009-03-14T22:51:49Z")
> [@flood](#): > > There’s also the fact that another grenade that did not detonate was lobbed at the U.S. Consulate last October. Correct me if I’m wrong, but had that grenade had gone off it, wouldn’t that have been considered an act of war? If you could show that said lobbing of grenade was directed by the Mexican government or that the lobber was under the substantial control of the Mexican government, then yeah, you could make a case for war. However, as it stands, its a criminal act (attempted murder) committed by a Mexican citizen. Just because a foreign national commits a criminal act in the US doesn’t mean the foreign country is suddenly at war with the US. ---
**Author:** ![Ocean\_Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8797f3/32.png) [@Ocean\_Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ocean_Annie)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/37 "2009-03-14T23:14:54Z")
> [@Sunrazor](#): > > It is no longer a police issue. Police agencies enforce laws. This HAS become a full-scale invasion. The invaders don’t have to wear uniforms. And there are news reports of Mexico dispatching para-military police to the border area. Any time a destabilized nation on our border dispatches huge numbers of military or para-military units to a common border with us, I believe we need to have disciplined, well-trained and well-equipped U.S. troops facing them across the border. I am talking about defending our nation and us. Why waste man power, just nuke em. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/38 "2009-03-15T00:24:59Z")
What’s really funny/sad in this whole scenario is, I remember in 2006, Mexico announced it was going to [legalize most illicit drugs](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,193616,00.html)to relieve the problems with cartels. Well, guess what, the USA wouldn’t have it, and bullied Mexico into not doing it after all. Now we see what unintended consequences have wrought… Good job, war on drugs! ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/39 "2009-03-15T01:23:23Z")
> [@Sunrazor](#): > > I do hope that no one has any real confidence in the ability of U.S. federal law enforcement agencies to “contain” or handle this problem. Remember how complacent we were back in August 2001? Frankly, I don’t feel all that safe right now. DEA, INS and Border Patrol are NOT up to the task, and we are about to find that out. I agree. I don’t think its in the best interest of the United States to have a destabilized country on our border. It would be nice for the U.S to assassinate the the leaders of the cartels one-by-one and be done with it. \ Seems so simple to me, but then again, I always had an overactive imagination. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2009, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278/40 "2009-03-15T01:53:00Z")
> [@Honesty](#): > > I agree. > > I don’t think its in the best interest of the United States to have a destabilized country on our border. It would be nice for the U.S to assassinate the the leaders of the cartels one-by-one and be done with it. \ Seems so simple to me, but then again, I always had an overactive imagination. Considering that both the Mexican government and their own rivals would be happy to do the same, I think it’s a safe assumption that assassinating them isn’t as easy as you seem to think. Not to mention fairly pointless; someone else will promptly take over. You’re talking about the leaders of criminal gangs, not Sauron. Their followers won’t turn into dust. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-on-the-mexico-border-what-am-i-missing/489278.md?page=3)