# Military patch question **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 19, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626 "2007-03-19T21:09:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/1 "2007-03-19T21:09:00Z")
Can anyone tell me the uniform and arm patch worn in [this photo](http://www.flickr.com/photos/20157049@N00/427235894/)? Based on the uniform and patch, could one of these people be a “Commander” in the Army? I think I am being contacted by a scammer and want to clarify. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![hawksgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/2 "2007-03-19T21:10:56Z")
[QUOTE=phungi] Can anyone tell me the uniform and arm patch worn in [this photo](http://www.flickr.com/photos/20157049@N00/427235894/)? Based on the uniform and patch, could one of these people be a “Commander” in the Army? I think I am being contacted by a scammer and want to clarify. Thanks! [/QUOTE] I’m wondering why that one girl has one on each arm. weird. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/3 "2007-03-19T21:13:47Z")
There is no U.S. Army rank called “Commander”. That’s a navy rank. However, sometimes the person in command of a particular unit is referred to as the Commander, or the unit commander. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/4 "2007-03-19T21:16:47Z")
[1st Cav Subdued](http://images.google.com/images?complete=1&hl=en&q=1st%20cav%20patch&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi). CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/5 "2007-03-19T21:17:27Z")
The patch is the subdued unit patch for the [1st Cavalry Division](http://pao.hood.army.mil/1stcavdiv/). ---
**Author:** ![Skipper\_Too](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6de8d8/32.png) [@Skipper\_Too](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skipper_Too)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/6 "2007-03-19T21:17:29Z")
I don’t know about the specific patch but it appears to be a Unit ensignia, Maybe frist Cav? The patch looks way oversized to me. ---
**Author:** ![hawksgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ed655f/32.png) [@hawksgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawksgirl)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/7 "2007-03-19T21:17:55Z")
[QUOTE=crowmanyclouds] [1st Cav Subdued](http://images.google.com/images?complete=1&hl=en&q=1st%20cav%20patch&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi). CMC fnord! [/QUOTE] yeah, that arm patch doesn’t denote rank, its just a unit insignia, so we may not be able to tell. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/8 "2007-03-19T21:22:31Z")
Um, what’s the potential scam? That is indeed a First Cav patch, and the uniforms worn by the women in the photo are the new US Army (and I think Marine?) issue MarPat camo, so the folks in the photo may well be authentic. Unit commanders are indeed called Commanders or Commanding Officers or CO for short, even though there is no rank of commander outside the Navy (and the Navy don’t wear marpat) - their rank could be any officer rank - 2nd Lieutenants are Commanding Officer for a platoon of soldiers in many case, though not often called a CO… Can’t see rank on either woman, though, so don’t know if that applies. Can you ellucidate? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/9 "2007-03-19T21:41:50Z")
It certainly has a weird photoshopped look to it… and it’s peculiar that they’d have their divisional insignias on both arms- the way I understand it, you wear your current unit patch on one arm, and your prior one on the other. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/10 "2007-03-19T21:58:46Z")
That is called a “Cav sandwich”. Your current unit is on the left side. A unit you served in comat with is on the right. If you are in the 1st Cav Division and also served with it in combat you can wear the patch on both arms. Yes it is a big ass patch. It is now and it was in the early 90s when I wore it. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/11 "2007-03-19T22:05:37Z")
[QUOTE=GomiBoy] Um, what’s the potential scam? That is indeed a First Cav patch, and the uniforms worn by the women in the photo are the new US Army (and I think Marine?) issue MarPat camo, so the folks in the photo may well be authentic. Unit commanders are indeed called Commanders or Commanding Officers or CO for short, even though there is no rank of commander outside the Navy (and the Navy don’t wear marpat) - their rank could be any officer rank - 2nd Lieutenants are Commanding Officer for a platoon of soldiers in many case, though not often called a CO… Can’t see rank on either woman, though, so don’t know if that applies. Can you ellucidate? [/QUOTE] Both the Marine Corps and the Army have a pixelated look to their new camo patterns but they are different. The Marines have a desert and a woodland version. The Army version is supposed to work in all environments. The Army uniform is called the ACU [Army Combat Uniform](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Combat_Uniform) (the old ones were BDUs Battle Dress Uniform). The Marines have the MarPat camo, a pattern they patented. In fact they incorporated little Eagle Globe and Anchors into the pattern so it can’t be copied. The Marine uniform doesn’t have all the velcro either. All the patches on the ACUs are attached by velcro. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/12 "2007-03-19T22:07:29Z")
[QUOTE=GomiBoy] … the uniforms worn by the women in the photo are the new US Army (and I think Marine?) issue MarPat camo … [/QUOTE] [MARPAT](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MARPAT) (short for MARine Disruptive PATtern) … MARPAT is a trademark of the United States Marine Corps. The Army Combat Uniform, or [ACU](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Combat_Uniform), is a new combat uniform … It uses a new camouflage pattern called universal camouflage pattern, or UCP … CMC fnord! As soon as I get it all memorized, they get new stuff! ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/13 "2007-03-19T22:53:16Z")
Can’t tell much from the picture apart from what’s already been established. A “Commander” could be a Company Commander, Battalion Commander, or Brigade. So there’s a whole varity of rank there. After that you’re a “Commanding General”. It’s a position not a rank. But if you think you’re being vamboosled, send me the scenario via email to: bear.nennoATusDOTarmyDOTmil If you have the name of the “Commander” I will check the military database and at least confirm that the person exists, is in the Army, and has sufficient rank to be in a Command Position. Also, if the person’s current unit is 1st Cav, that helps her story a little. So if you can send me as much information as possible, I’d be glad to help. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/14 "2007-03-19T22:59:33Z")
Oh, and to add two things: 1. The ACU is freakin garbage. 2. The 1st Cav patch _is_ that freakin big. It’s bigger than the velcro surface it is supposed to attach to. Stupid ACU designers. They can choke on cheap textile for all I care! Oh, and one more thing: The patch on the left shoulder is called an SSI or Shoulder Sleeve Insignia and denotes your current unit. The patch on the right shoulder is called an SSI-FWS or Shoulder Sleeve Insignia - Former Wartime Service. One is awarded an SSI-FWS for a unit when he serves with that unit in combat. It’s possible, especially with Joint Task Forces, that a person can be awarded several SSI-FWS for one tour. These people can wear any patch they have orders for. You can only wear one SSI-FWS at a time, but it can be any patch you’ve earned the right to wear. I know people that have different patches on different ACUs. It just depends which they’re wearing that day. ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/15 "2007-03-19T23:13:38Z")
Sorry for a vague OP. I received on of those initial “feeler” e-mails (on my work computer but posted [here](http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=104773)) from someone in Iraq looking to funnel money through a secret container with a special code. Of course, my funds and contact information will be required. I have no intention of giving the requester anything, but am trying to waste as much of his/her time as possible. Thus far, she has responded to a silly general quiz I wrote up about life in America (i.e., Who are Ernie and Bert, What is a “Full Metal Jacket”, etc), send me a photo of you in military clothing, and now I am thinking of some other verification or validation I can send. Asking about her rank, she said “Commander” and which unit, “Army”… Of course, the entire thing is a scam but I was hoping for some inconsistencies in the photo that I can point out while giving the impression that I REALLY want to help out. Thanks for your comments. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/16 "2007-03-19T23:58:06Z")
1. The US Army uniform regs require the wearing of one’s division patch on the left sleeve. If one has served in combat, then the division patch for one’s combat unit may be worn on the right sleeve. Sometimes it happens that it’s the same division for one’s last combat assignment and one’s current unit assignment. 2. Company and battalion commanding officers are reffered to as, unsurprisingly, commanding officers in the UMR. When they sign official correspondence, their signature block has the word _Commanding_ on the bottom line. During my Army days (before I wised up and went Navy), I only worked at brigade level for one week and I don’t recall what the official terminology was for that. It’s simple enough to find, though: check the UMR. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/17 "2007-03-20T01:55:26Z")
[QUOTE=Monty] 1. The US Army uniform regs require the wearing of one’s division patch on the left sleeve. If one has served in combat, then the division patch for one’s combat unit may be worn on the right sleeve. Sometimes it happens that it’s the same division for one’s last combat assignment and one’s current unit assignment. 2. Company and battalion commanding officers are reffered to as, unsurprisingly, commanding officers in the UMR. When they sign official correspondence, their signature block has the word _Commanding_ on the bottom line. During my Army days (before I wised up and went Navy), I only worked at brigade level for one week and I don’t recall what the official terminology was for that. It’s simple enough to find, though: check the UMR. [/QUOTE] The patches are not only for divisions. Everyone has a unit patch, not everyone is in a division. Corps, major commands and separate brigades have their own patches as well as various training commands. [CENTCOM patch.](http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/050B0P/product-id/23098354.html) [3rd Corps patch (the corps that 1st Cav is in)](http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Shelf/ASP/Hierarchy/080U.html)[58th Infantry Brigade patch (National Guard Stryker Brigade)](http://www.militaryclothing.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Shelf/ASP/Hierarchy/0846.html) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/18 "2007-03-20T02:02:29Z")
Thanks for that correction, **Loach**. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/19 "2007-03-20T02:12:49Z")
[QUOTE=phungi] Sorry for a vague OP. I received on of those initial “feeler” e-mails (on my work computer but posted [here](http://forum.419eater.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=104773)) from someone in Iraq looking to funnel money through a secret container with a special code. Of course, my funds and contact information will be required. I have no intention of giving the requester anything, but am trying to waste as much of his/her time as possible. Thus far, she has responded to a silly general quiz I wrote up about life in America (i.e., Who are Ernie and Bert, What is a “Full Metal Jacket”, etc), send me a photo of you in military clothing, and now I am thinking of some other verification or validation I can send. Asking about her rank, she said “Commander” and which unit, “Army”… Of course, the entire thing is a scam but I was hoping for some inconsistencies in the photo that I can point out while giving the impression that I REALLY want to help out. Thanks for your comments. [/QUOTE] I always fuck with people who send me those emails. I once wrote to a scammer that I would only consider doing business with him if he could prove to me that he was gay, and requested that he send me a list of men who he finds attractive. This is what he wrote to me, unedited: Hello, Brad Bite, beckham ,usher raymon, R kelly,mase.waitting to read from you soonest.Sorry for my late response. Thanks. His name was “sean S. marine.” Hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![GomiBoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b2d939/32.png) [@GomiBoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GomiBoy)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2007, 10:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626/20 "2007-03-20T10:25:42Z")
_ **Loach** _ and _ **crowmanyclouds** _ - thanks for the info; didn’t realize MarPat was Marine-only. About time the jarheads get their own stuff :). Back in my day (USAF 1991-1998) we all wore the same BDUs in either desert or woodland pattern and the only way to tell the difference was in the scrounge hats (Marines had different ones than Army / AF) and in the badges / patches. [QUOTE=phungi] Asking about her rank, she said “Commander” and which unit, “Army”… Of course, the entire thing is a scam but I was hoping for some inconsistencies in the photo that I can point out while giving the impression that I REALLY want to help out. [/QUOTE] Total total scam. Have some fun with “her” but don’t for the life of you give “her” anything. Commander is not a rank (except in the Navy), and Army is not a unit. Ask “her” to tell you what plane “she” flies and what the class and name of the ship “she” commands is - that might be fun. I would ask “her” for naked photos, and the naked photos of “her” friend decorating the tree too; then if “she” does send any, tell “her” you will report “her” to the Secretary of the Army for violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice concerning Conduct Unbecomming, Homosexual Activities, and Public Indecency unless she just sends you a check. Blackmailing a 419 scammer can be fun 🙂 Wasn’t in the Cav or Army (Go Zoomies! US Air Force is the only military service that almost exclusively sends our officers out to fight and die - tells me it’s the right service to be enlisted in 😛 ) so can’t give you any other trick questions. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-patch-question/396626.md?page=2)