# Military question - the cooks? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741 "2017-05-02T19:47:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/21 "2017-05-02T22:33:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > If they messed up that bad in the Air Force, we made them eat their meals at the nearby Army base. The Constitution [has strong language about this practice](http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Cruel+and+Unusual+Punishment), however. Actually, the best chow hall I ever partook in was at an Army-operated command post, while it was being operated by active-duty Army food services. In contrast, the worst chow hall I ever partook in was the exact same facility after its operation had been transferred to a civilian contractor. “Lowest bidder” is not a phrase I want describing the food I put into my mouth. :eek: (Inadvertently addressing anomalous1’s [comment](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20178736&postcount=16)… yes, in my experience, outsourcing to contracting makes it something approximating school lunch, except with fewer effective constraints on reducing quality and service to increase profitability.) ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/22 "2017-05-02T22:53:18Z")
In the Canadian Forces, we had a saying “You do not give cooks or the clerks a hard time.” (I think the actual saying had more swearing). Those are the two professions in the army who could make life really miserable. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/23 "2017-05-02T23:35:21Z")
My uncle was in the Army (Vietnam era, but he served entirely in Europe) and had some choice things to say about the cooking. He said that he occasionally had business to conduct with the Air Force, and that they got the exact same food shipments that the Army did, but that they made a lot more of an effort at turning it into good meals, as opposed to just dumping everything together and warming the lot of it. He very much appreciated getting sent over to the Air Force side, for that reason. And if KP duty isn’t used as a punishment (for good reason), whence comes the popular notion that it is? I mean, we’ve all seen references to the angry sergeant yelling at the private “You’ll be peeling potatoes for a week!”. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/24 "2017-05-02T23:54:31Z")
It isn’t **now**. It certainly used to be. Read some of Jean Shepard’s stories about life in Company K., like “Banjo Butt Meets Julia Child.” ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/25 "2017-05-02T23:57:44Z")
I didn’t have good food in the military until I went TDY to an AFB in Japan. I’d been in for seven years by then. Prior to that, it was boot camp, then a Marine base in RVN, and a naval station on Adak. The Marine chow was by far the worst. The AFB had Japanese cooks working there who did a great job with American food. ---
**Author:** ![SCAdian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scadian/32/3292_2.png) [@SCAdian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SCAdian)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/26 "2017-05-02T23:59:21Z")
> [@Tranquilis](#): > > (Rating is pay grade - Rate is job specialty). [Other way round](http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ranks/rankrate.html). I always remembered it because the stripes worn by E-2 and E-3 personnel are called “group rate marks.” > [@](#): > > Pretty much anyone surplus to operational needs can be assigned to Mess Duty (“Mess Crank” aka “Cranking”), though as a practical matter, it’s generally restricted to non-rates and junior rated personnel. That said, I’ve seen E-5s cranking. I’ve even seen E-5 _nukes_ crank. On a submarine it’s pretty much a given that if your service record doesn’t show that you’ve already done your time as a mess cook, you’re going to get your chance.\* 😃 The norm is 90 days (total time, usually not all in one go), but if there’s a shortage of nubs you may get to do it again. I actually missed out on the whole experience. My first boat was under construction; by the time the first mess cooks were assigned I was already a PO2, and by the time the first PO went cranking I was qualified SS. - Unlike on the tender, where getting a crow meant being sent straight back to your division, even if the guy who replaced you on the mess decks had already done well over 90. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/27 "2017-05-03T00:26:20Z")
There’s the old Marine tradition that Every Marine is a Fighting Marine. Back in World War Two the cliche’ was that all US Army cooks had been truck drivers in civilian life, whereas any professional chefs were assigned to the motor pool. I don’t doubt it was true at one time, I hope they eventually learned better. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/28 "2017-05-03T01:42:37Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > In the Canadian Forces, we had a saying “You do not give cooks or the clerks a hard time.” (I think the actual saying had more swearing). Those are the two professions in the army who could make life really miserable. Canadians swear?!? Holy shit! ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/29 "2017-05-03T02:01:52Z")
I am told that they do not have mess personnel anymore. The army anyway, i have heard it from enough people that i suppose it is somewhat true. In my time, mess people were armed, they needed to be, they followed everyone around as close as was feasible, and took risks running food out to units. And the risk of them getting caught up in a hasty retreat was real. They used to haul an entire gasoline powered kitchen into a combat zone, but i guess not anymore. I visited someone out at white sands, they had no active mess halls. I did not know what to think, what kind of base has no functioning mess halls? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/30 "2017-05-03T02:19:04Z")
> [@SCAdian](#): > > [Other way round](http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ranks/rankrate.html). I always remembered it because the stripes worn by E-2 and E-3 personnel are called “group rate marks.” Psst. See post #20. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/31 "2017-05-03T03:12:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > My uncle was in the Army (Vietnam era, but he served entirely in Europe) and had some choice things to say about the cooking. He said that he occasionally had business to conduct with the Air Force, and that they got the exact same food shipments that the Army did, but that they made a lot more of an effort at turning it into good meals, as opposed to just dumping everything together and warming the lot of it. He very much appreciated getting sent over to the Air Force side, for that reason. > > And if KP duty isn’t used as a punishment (for good reason), whence comes the popular notion that it is? I mean, we’ve all seen references to the angry sergeant yelling at the private “You’ll be peeling potatoes for a week!”. Here’s a weird anecdote… my father, whose culinary skills are mostly limited to making pasta (not sauce), fried eggs and ham sandwiches, has one idiot savant skill he picked up in the Air Force doing KP sometime in the late 1960s. He can cook awesome French Toast. Like high-end restaurant good. Swears he learned in the Air Force during boot camp. I believe him because the rest of his cooking repertoire sucks. I wonder if he somehow found his niche as the designated French Toast maker for his platoon or something, and thus got a lot of practice at that and not much else. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/32 "2017-05-03T03:44:46Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Bolding mine. That’s [backwards](http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ranks/rankrate.html): rate=rank, rating=specialty. Carry on, shipmate. 🙂 Meh, I’m old - yes, the memory slips sometimes. Thanks for the correction. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/33 "2017-05-03T03:56:21Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Canadians swear?!? Holy shit! You know, I almost never swore before joining the army. They were a bad influence on me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/34 "2017-05-03T05:56:02Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > There’s the old Marine tradition that Every Marine is a Fighting Marine. > > Back in World War Two the cliche’ was that all US Army cooks had been truck drivers in civilian life, whereas any professional chefs were assigned to the motor pool. I don’t doubt it was true at one time, I hope they eventually learned better. Chauffeurs == Chefs. Neither one of them could spell, and the Army clerks weren’t much better. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/35 "2017-05-03T12:52:33Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > There’s two major categories for awards - service and achievement. Think of it more as long term of doing a good job versus a relatively confined incident that was awesome. Achievement awards include a subset that require valor. > > Valor awards are obviously harder if you aren’t in areas typically in contact with the enemy. There’s less chance to be a hero if your odds of being in contact with the enemy are low. It still happens though. > > There are also lower forms of recognition such as certificates, letters of appreciation, plaques, etc that don’t come with a pretty ribbon to wear on dress uniforms as well. Certificates of Achievement signed by a Battalion Commander are even worth promotion points like Medals. > > I’ve personally been a part of recognizing cooks from the strictly informal punch on the shoulder with a “good job” all the way up to the award of the [Army Commendation Medal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commendation_Medal) without the V Device for valor. I once advocated for a [Soldier’s Medal](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soldier%27s_Medal) for heroism not involving conflict with an enemy; he had run up to a burning car to help the trapped civilian occupant here in the US. I still think he should have gotten it rather than the ARCOM they gave him too. So the Army Commendation Medal is the only real, tangible reward you have seen a cook earn? Well no wonder they dont put much effort into their work. I really dont see how their work is less important than persons in supply or who work as mechanics or electricians. Now I have heard that on board a ship is the only place a cook gets any type of reward since at sea, they cant be outsourced and sailors cant just go eat somewhere else. Plus 6 months at sea with bad food doesnt sound good. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/36 "2017-05-03T13:13:52Z")
A cook who’s food is always edible throughout their term of service will be awarded a gold medal. So far the medal has never been awarded. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/37 "2017-05-03T13:47:06Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > A cook who’s food is always edible throughout their term of service will be awarded a gold medal. So far the medal has never been awarded. :rolleyes: A cook \*whose \*food (autocorrect missed!) ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/38 "2017-05-03T14:11:15Z")
“Hey! This tastes like moose turd pie!” Good, though. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/39 "2017-05-03T19:10:30Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > “Hey! This tastes like moose turd pie!” > > Good, though. Makes a heckuva fondue… ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741/40 "2017-05-03T19:14:13Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > A cook who’s food is always edible throughout their term of service will be awarded a gold medal. So far the medal has never been awarded. :rolleyes: Wait What?? A cook, who is food, is always edible throughout their entire term of service?? Ok 1st wtf? nazi zombie army? they eat the cooks? 2nd how the bloody hell is the man to remain edible for X years? Even if he survived a few minor feedings, he will become a diminishing supply, and eventually die before he is all eaten. Is his enlistment 1 week or less? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-question-the-cooks/785741.md?page=3)