# Military recruits attacked during training - what happens? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 26, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011 "2011-01-26T03:19:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/21 "2011-01-26T18:06:51Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > It’s happened in the US as well. [The cadets fought with exceptional bravery](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMI_Cadets_at_New_Market). Wow, looking up the link I saw a few Cabells, and: _William Henry Cabell, a 16 year old, enrolled at the Virginia Military Institute in January, 1862. Once when he was on sick leave he sneaked away from home, and fought with his older brother, who was a Confederate officer, in a battle near Richmond. He even participated in a bloody charge that won the battle. After the battle he was forced to return to VMI by his parents. He was eighteen when the VMI corps were called to aid the Confereracy, and he fought side by side with his younger brother. After all the carnage that occurred he found his brother’s body along with two others, killed by a single cannon shell._ This appears to be misleading, since it was William who died at New Market, and his brother Cadet Robert Gamble Cabell who found his body. **[Google Books](http://books.google.com/books?id=8qg2LJ9OJYkC&pg=PA33&lpg=PA33&dq=william+henry+cabell+james+branch+cabell+cadet&source=bl&ots=tGltYESMtb&sig=9X9dwitQ2vvBXpPJESKiVh-itAc&hl=en&ei=jV9ATbjJL465hAfZl6GxCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=william%20henry%20cabell%20james%20branch%20cabell%20cadet&f=false)** result of a book on VMI Cadets who fought in New Market: The Corps Forward And had Robert died, there wouldn’t have been one of the greatest of American authors, since he was his father… ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/22 "2011-01-26T18:08:27Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Why would any sane enemy attack a training base? There’s little there of strategic value. Those troops would be better used attacking something worthwhile… Strange question. If you are at war with someone, why \*wouldn’t \*you attack a training base? If you can actually reach the enemy training camp and attack it effectively, there are few more effective targets. Reasons: - its easier to fight untrained, possibly unarmed, trainees than fully trained, armed veterans. - any trainees you kill or injure won’t be around to fight you later. - kill the trainers, destroy training equipment, make it hard to train any more people. - make the next lot of kids scared to enlist at all. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/23 "2011-01-26T18:13:35Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > It’s happened in the US as well. [The cadets fought with exceptional bravery](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VMI_Cadets_at_New_Market). The VMI cadets weren’t even themselves directly attacked–they mobilized to _go_ to the battle. They marched 80 miles in four rainy days and went directly into the fight, playing a critical role in the Confederate victory. VMI commemorates their bravery to this day. > [@](#): > > Last week, in splendid array, the seven companies of cadets swept onto the V.M.I, parade ground in full regalia: black-plumed shakos, gray coatees, white crossbelts, white ducks. They stood near a statue of Stonewall Jackson, flanked by four cannons named Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. As each name of the ten honored dead was called out, a cadet from the young soldier’s company answered: “Died on the field of honor, sir!” > > By companies, the corps paraded past another statue, Virginia Mourning Her Dead. Flowers were placed on the graves of the six young Confederates who are buried at the foot of the monument (the other four were buried elsewhere). A squad of hand-picked cadets fired a three-volley salute, and the bugler sounded taps. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyMarine2092](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyMarine2092](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyMarine2092)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/24 "2011-01-27T18:28:50Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > I’m surprised that the USMC, with its “every Marine is a rifleman” philosophy, doesn’t have a similar approach. In garrison and larger FOBs it’s the job of the MPs and the Force Protection. It’s not to say that we didn’t walk around with rifles and full magazines, but I think the brass was more worried about Blue on Blue. On deployment to smaller FOBs we’d all chip in. We’d all man the berm if the alarm sounded. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/25 "2011-01-27T21:34:00Z")
It makes sense, in that you guys tend to have much bigger camps then we did. There are only a handful of bases in all of the IDF ground forces with more than a few hundred troops; even my basic training unit was battalion-sized. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/26 "2011-01-27T21:41:42Z")
When I was in USAF pilot training a question came up about what we would do if the US was attacked. We were in Oklahoma very near the center of the country. We had 100-ish entirely unarmed aircraft, a hundred or so fully qualified pilot instructors and a couple hundred partly trained pilots ranging from rank beginners to he-will-graduate-tomorrow. Plus the usual assortment of non-flying uspport folks: cops, mechanics, truckers cooks, etc. The USAF had a plan for us to do something useful. There’s always a plan. Regardless of whether any particular trainee or recruit knows what it is. Now I’m also sure that if a battlion of Soviet mechanized infantry magically materialized outside the main gate the base defense effort would have been useless against that much combat power. And so we’d never have had time to put our post-attack plans into effect. But that was not considered a credible threat. Some goons with guns & an explosive-laden truck would have been able to make a mess, but not enough to prevent us from ending their adventure with extreme prejudice & going back to business as usual that afternoon minus a few percent losses. The civilian world tends to stop in a whimper & wail of CNN-hand-wringing when it takes a hit. The military mostly shrugs & keeps going. ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/27 "2011-01-28T03:39:26Z")
At the very first few moments after arrival a new recruit swears to “preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States of America.” and to follow the orders of those duly appointed to lead him. You bet your ass if the actual domestic military base where training is done were under attack, those soldiers would be given weapons and ammunition, and integrated into the immediate defense of the base. Not key position, not leadership positions, but real soldier jobs. Training centers are in places actually on the soil of the country. A terrorist attack is generally a squad sized or smaller event. Against a military base like Ft. Benning, or Camp Lejune it’s pretty much a police matter. If it is a significant military force, like battalion or division sized (where the heck did they come from?) engaging in an actual attack, there are a lot of very experienced combat leaders here. And probably more ammunition per soldier than any other type of base. They are gonna fall out, and counter-attack, as soon as possible. (Not to mention calling in air support, and re-inforcement from everywhere.) Tris ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/28 "2011-01-28T03:58:14Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > My experience in the IDF is completely different: all soldiers are supposed to take part in defending the base. New recruits are expected to fight from the moment they are issued a rifle, one week into basic training (which is also when they start performing regular guard duty). All armed personnel serving in a base are assigned positions and tasks in the event of an attack, and if they haven’t been, when the shooting starts they’re responsible for finding an officer as quickly as possible and following his or her lead. This is a hijack and apologies to the OP about it but have you before or would you be willing now to start a thread about your experiences in the IDF? From what little I know about them they seem unique in a number of ways. Second hijack did you see Waltz With Bashir and what did you think of it? ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/29 "2011-01-28T07:00:19Z")
> [@Triskadecamus](#): > > You bet your ass if the actual domestic military base where training is done were under attack, those soldiers would be given weapons and ammunition, and integrated into the immediate defense of the base. Not key position, not leadership positions, but real soldier jobs. No. They would only get in the way. They would be locked down after 100% accountability of each Soldier. Their action in the defense of the base (if any) would be self-defense only. Someone would have to actually invade the barracks or immediate area of the recruits for them to be fighting anyone. This isn’t so much due to their trainee status, as it is their “not here to defend the base” status. All the other units on the base (combat or otherwise) would follow similar procedures. It’s not like Soldiers are running around CONUS military bases with weapons and ammunition. If FT Benning was attacked, I would be able to drive home and return with my personal firearms and ammunition faster than I could arm myself on the base. I won’t touch on base defense in a war zone, but if you are picturing everyone on the base grabbing their weapon to defend it and fight off the attack, you couldn’t be further from the reality. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/30 "2011-01-28T09:23:50Z")
I was reading the autobiography of a WW2 pilot and he was in training when war broke out. He and the other trainees were put on patrol duty. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/31 "2011-01-28T13:42:57Z")
From my experience in the regular Army, the Army Reserves, and the regular Navy, I’d have to say that there’s no way someone not trained in the use of the weapons would be issued said weapons. In other words, fresh recruits would certainly not be involved in actively defending the place as armed personnel. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/32 "2011-01-28T15:52:28Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > Plus, there’s is a degree of risk in issuing weapons early on in training - recruits might do stupid things with them. Nitpick: you included an unnecessary “might” in that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/33 "2011-01-28T16:02:02Z")
Then I’d think it would be best to issue them as early as possible, when they’re closely supervised and still in a state of shock. ---
**Author:** ![JerseyMarine2092](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8491ac/32.png) [@JerseyMarine2092](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JerseyMarine2092)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/34 "2011-01-28T20:30:05Z")
**Alessan** - I can’t speak for the other services, but Marine recruits are given their rifles extremely early in training. I can’t pin down an exact day, since the first week is essentially one giant blur in my memory, but it was no later than the second or third day. **Bear\_Nenno** Right. In fact ammo and weapons are deliberately kept far away from each other. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2011, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011/35 "2011-01-28T23:29:05Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > [Saumur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Saumur_(1940))’s cavalry school, in the french case. They tried to defend passages of the Loire river for three days, along with some other elements in training in the area, after the refusal of the school commanding officer to withdraw, as he had been ordered to. > > Instead of taking them prisonner, the Germans let the cadets themselves leave with honours, 18th century style, at the end of the battle. The cadets of the Soviet infantry School at Podolsk did something similar, [but didn’t fare as well in the end](http://www.vectorsite.net/twsnow_05.html). > [@](#): > > On 13 October, the Germans broke through the final major Soviet defense line in front of Moscow. On 14 October, the Germans were at Podolsk, 48 kilometers (30 miles) from Moscow. A unit of officer cadets, many only teenagers, managed to slow them down for a few vital hours. All the cadets were killed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recruits-attacked-during-training-what-happens/569011.md?page=1)