# Military recuiters now own all your kids info **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 5, 2002, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314 "2002-11-05T04:09:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/41 "2002-11-26T04:13:32Z")
Doesn’t matter if they like it or not. It’s that, or the draft. I just want to make sure they understand the _why_. If they want the draft, that’s fine with me; It’s a political decision, and one that needs be made by the entire population. I just want them to understand what the consequences are, the whys and wherefores, so that that decision can be made in an informed manner. BTW: “Indenture” is a highly charged word, and entirely inappropriate. An Enlistment Contract is quite different, legally _and_ materially, from indentured sertvitude. I’ve always hated that this country feels that someone old enough to choose to put their life in harms way for their country should be treated like a virtual child in so many other ways, but that’s a discussion for another thread, methinks. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/42 "2002-11-26T05:46:03Z")
Correct, Tranq. _Anyone_ who calls the All Volunteer Armed Forces we have in this country “indentured servitude” proves they know absolutely zero about it. ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/43 "2002-11-26T06:37:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Correct, Tranq. _Anyone_ who calls the All Volunteer Armed Forces we have in this country “indentured servitude” proves they know absolutely zero about it. \*\* Admittedly, I’ve never been in the army, nor even considered joining (at least not while I was sober). I may be totally wrong. If I accept a regular job, I can stay there for six months and then leave if I decide I don’t like it. The employer can’t force me to keep working there, and I’m not subject to any legal penalties if I quit. From TV and movies, I’ve gotten the impression that it’s different for military service. Once you sign up, you are **in** for a number of years. Is that not true? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/44 "2002-11-26T13:35:22Z")
**Mr. 2001** , thing is, calling up the strict dictionary definition of “indenture” (“a contract binding one person to work for another for a given period of time”), gives no consideration to the sociohistoric baggage that the word “indentured” conveys – specially in American culture where it is usually seen followed by “servitude”, commony used to imply “slavery lite” – and which understandably would be seen by many as either grossly mistaken or deliberately provocative. (It IS a fixed-time, severe-penalty-for-early-withdrawal contract, but _those can be entered in civilian life too._ Just that since this one is with the Government, the penalties can be a bitch. But in exchange for that fixed-time contract the recruit earns a series of benefits that extend _beyond_ the time of service (GI Bill, VA elegibility), and s/he retains a set of rights and protections against totally arbitrary treatment by the institution.) This is starting to resemble the thread in GD about a “right to proselytize”. People and institutions with something _legal_ to sell/preach have a right to make a pitch for it to their target audience, regardless of what we think of the “morality” of what’s being sold/preached or of the very act of pitching it. The audience meanwhile have a right to say No, Thank You, Go Away; or just ignore them; and to bitch about it when they do not go away. (However I _still_ can’t help but wonder if, while the recruit-prospect is still a minor requiring parental consent for enlistment, the parents should not be entitled to tell the recruiter to chill the hard sell if it starts bothering _them_ ) ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2002, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/45 "2002-11-26T15:34:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > Admittedly, I’ve never been in the army, nor even considered joining (at least not while I was sober). I may be totally wrong. You are. > [@](#): > > If I accept a regular job, I can stay there for six months and then leave if I decide I don’t like it. The employer can’t force me to keep working there, and I’m not subject to any legal penalties if I quit. Depending on your employment contract, you very well may have to suffer some kind of penalty if you fail to perform the entirety o that contract (i.e., the length of employment). You might have to “buy out” the remainder. > [@](#): > > From TV and movies, I’ve gotten the impression that it’s different for military service. TV & movies? Bwhahahahahahahahah! > [@](#): > > Once you sign up, you are **in** for a number of years. Is that not true? Of course it’s true. Next time you sign an employment contract, scope out the term of the contract. ---
**Author:** ![Tranquilis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tranquilis/32/3639_2.png) [@Tranquilis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tranquilis)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/46 "2002-11-27T00:52:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JRDelirious \* > \*\*[(However I _still_ can’t help but wonder if, while the recruit-prospect is still a minor requiring parental consent for enlistment, the parents should not be entitled to tell the recruiter to chill the hard sell if it starts bothering _them_ ) \*\* Any good Recruiter - hell, any Recruiter who can think at all - will back off in the face of parental irritation when dealing with a 17 year old. Recruiting has techniques for dealing specifically with 17 year olds and their parents, based on a number of scenarios (of which there are fairly limited possible combinations). I’m not going to beat **Mr2001** for his lack of familiarity. He’s only repeated a widely held myth, and has had no reason to question it before. Indentured servitude is essentially the surrendering of civil rights to an individual for a period of years in exchange for some consideration, but is not an employment contract, _per se_. The relationship between indentured person and their indenture holder terminates upon completion of the set term. A Contract of Enlistment is a contract between the Government and an individual, in which the individual _retains_ their civil rights, gains some additional priviledges and rights, and agrees to place themselves under military discipline. This contract grants both parties certain rights and priviledges that extend for a considerable time beyond the formal end of the contract, such as Veteran’s Benefits, preferential access to Gov’t jobs (one-time use!), and so on. In exchange, the Gov’t has _limited_ recall rights in event of national emergency (this ends after eight years past initial day of service, unless the individual takes a Fleet Reserve Transfer after 20 years). ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/47 "2002-11-27T03:12:41Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*_(Once you sign up, you are in for a number of years. Is that not true?)_ > > Of course it’s true. Next time you sign an employment contract, scope out the term of the contract. \*\* Frankly, I don’t think anyone has ever called me month after month to give me the hard sell on an employment contract. But as I mentioned earlier, a minor can’t even legally agree to buy concert tickets over the phone. That restriction is intended to protect minors from getting themselves locked into something they don’t understand. My question remains: Why is it OK to sell military “employment contracts” to minors, who generally aren’t able to sign contracts? ---
**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/48 "2002-11-27T03:40:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mr2001 \* > \*\*Why is it OK to sell military “employment contracts” to minors, who generally aren’t able to sign contracts? \*\* They still aren’t. Even if your military service induction date is after your 18[sup]th[/sup] birthday, a parent must still sign a special form. From [here](http://www.tpub.com/legalman/110.htm): > [@](#): > > A member under age 18 is a minor. The minimum age for enlistment is 17. Written consent of a custodial parent or legal guardian must be obtained before enlistment of a minor. -AmbushBug ---
**Author:** ![Ms2001](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ms2001/32/18463_2.png) [@Ms2001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ms2001)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2002, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/49 "2002-11-27T06:49:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by AmbushBug \* > **Even if your military service induction date is after your 18[sup]th[/sup] birthday, a parent must still sign a special form.** Well, that’s a good precaution. But it still seems wrong. If we don’t let minors sign contracts because we assume they can’t comprehend what they’re getting themselves into, why does a third party’s consent help? There would be an outrage if telemarketers started pressuring kids to ask their parents for cigarettes or liquor. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2002, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314/50 "2002-11-28T01:48:13Z")
**Mr2001** , minors above a threshold age (oscillating between 12 and 16 depending on the specific law) ARE allowed to sign many contracts with parental consent. Employment contracts, student-loan contracts, enlistment contracts, _marriage_ contracts. The consent of the _custodial parent_ – not just any adult 3rd party! – into the transaction introduces the element of a (theoretically) prudent, mature person who is legally obligated to look out for the minor’s interests. It is a well established practice under our laws and creates a transitional period between total tutelage and full responsibility. Alcohol and tobacco, having been determined by Those In Charge to be just plain _Badsup[/sup]_ are not subject to this dispensation in most of the USA – yet there _are_ still places under the American flag where if I’m a parent, and I want to toast the New Year with champagne in the privacy of my family home, I can hand a glass to my teenage child w/o being charged with some sort of abuse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-recuiters-now-own-all-your-kids-info/135314.md?page=2)