# Military-style firearms in California. **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040 "2020-06-04T13:42:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/1 "2020-06-04T13:42:53Z")
**PLEASE** let’s not make this a gun control thread. I am looking for a factual answer. A man was charged with assault for brandishing a weapon at protesters in Upland, CA ([link](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/upland-rifle-protesters-arrest/2322135/)). His rifle is an AR-15 variant, and has a drum magazine. I assume the person in the linked article owns a ‘California legal’ AR-15 style rifle. What would make it California-legal? ---
**Author:** ![GaryM](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garym/32/241_2.png) [@GaryM](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaryM)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/2 "2020-06-04T13:50:02Z")
Certain features may be grandfathered in, but in general California bans pistol grips and easily changed magazines. AR style firearms in other states can drop the magazine for replacement via a protruding button on the right side. California requires that a “tool” be used to press this button. AR style firearms normally have a pistol grip for the user to grasp California prohibits this as well. Ohter common AR features are banned as well. And of course there’s a whole industry built around evading these restrictions. Here’s a link to [further information](https://caligunner.com/california-compliant-featureless-rifle/) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/3 "2020-06-04T14:07:37Z")
**GaryM** ’s link includes also this [quite large flowchart](https://caligunner.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Calguns-flowchart.jpg). As far as I can read it apparently yes you CAN own a more fully featured weapon if you registered it before some specific date, but if you want to buy a new one your restrictions include the usual cosmetics (no bayonet lug/ folding stock/flash hider) and 10 round OEM mag, plus some additional ones such as that the stock and grip must be one piece (not “thumbhole”) \*\*and \*\*the mag must be fixed or locked i.e. you can’t drop it and reload on the fly, you either need a tooled lock or must break open the action to remove. They also apparently have as some other states a list of specific makes/models that are allowed or not. ETA: The OP reference’s large cap drum would seem to automatically put him outside the law anyway. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/4 "2020-06-04T14:22:08Z")
Ack, the delays ate the edit – looking at the chart more closely, apparently having the fixed/locked magazine saves from a number of the other cosmetic requirements. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/5 "2020-06-04T14:46:44Z")
As an aside, it’s probably safer for everyone that he had a drum magazine - those things are notoriously unreliable. ---
**Author:** ![SanDiegoTim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/85e7bf/32.png) [@SanDiegoTim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanDiegoTim)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/6 "2020-06-06T02:34:52Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Ack, the delays ate the edit – looking at the chart more closely, apparently having the fixed/locked magazine saves from a number of the other cosmetic requirements. True. I have a magazine, when installed, disables the previously acceptable bullet button. It (the magazine) cannot be removed without partially disassembling the rifle. When this mag is installed it cannot be removed without breaking the rifle open. As noted above, the fixed magazine allows several other features. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/7 "2020-06-06T03:35:08Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > … > > I assume the person in the linked article owns a ‘California legal’ AR-15 style rifle. What would make it California-legal? He was likely one of the few that were able to register their 'assault weapons", and thus can keep them, further purchase is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/8 "2020-06-06T16:19:52Z")
> [@GaryM](#): > > Here’s a link to [further information](https://caligunner.com/california-compliant-featureless-rifle/) So if Mr. Doe, who lives in \ & has owned an AR for many years decides to move to CA, just continuing to own his possessions would be illegal because he has no way to register them now since the registration deadline has passed? ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/9 "2020-06-06T16:34:57Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > So if Mr. Doe, who lives in \ & has owned an AR for many years decides to move to CA, just continuing to own his possessions would be illegal because he has no way to register them now since the registration deadline has passed? Yes, you can’t bring outside guns into California unless they’re either already acceptable and conform to California laws or if you get some sort of exemption if you’re a law enforcement officer. IIRC that is one of the few ways to be able to purchase “banned” weapons in California, have a law enforcement officer legally bring it in from out-of-state and then sell it as part of a PPT (and you still can’t sell if if it’s an “assault weapon”. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/10 "2020-06-06T16:44:13Z")
Would his mere ownership be illegal if the weapon itself never enters the state (say, he keeps it at his brother’s house in Pennsylvania)? ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/11 "2020-06-06T16:57:22Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Would his mere ownership be illegal if the weapon itself never enters the state (say, he keeps it at his brother’s house in Pennsylvania)? no, the act of _possessing_ it in California is what’s against the law. However, it might be illegal for his brother to possess a firearm that is not his, depending on the other state’s laws. ---
**Author:** ![Spiderman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spiderman/32/230_2.png) [@Spiderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiderman)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2020, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/12 "2020-06-06T21:09:26Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Yes, you can’t bring outside guns into California unless they’re either already acceptable and conform to California laws or if you get some sort of exemption if you’re a law enforcement officer. IIRC that is one of the few ways to be able to purchase “banned” weapons in California, have a law enforcement officer legally bring it in from out-of-state and then sell it as part of a PPT (and you still can’t sell if if it’s an “assault weapon”. Mr. (John) Doe & his brother Bob (also, Mr. Doe - thanks, Elmo’s World :)) bought their AR’s on the same day many years ago. John plans to retire to & live near his brother Bob who has lived in CA for many years. Bob registered his gun when that law came out. However, John didn’t, presumably he couldn’t legally do such because he wasn’t a CA resident. I’m guessing the only way to legally keep his possession is to do what’s essentially a straw sale/purchase thru a LEO, which of course no honest, law-abiding LEO would do. Seems to me that’s discrimination against people who weren’t residents of the state by a certain date. I’m not trying to pick a fight; you didn’t write the law. Don’t shoot the messenger & all that. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/13 "2020-06-07T03:13:08Z")
Wasn’t he charged for brandishing? In states like mine, you can openly carry a rifle or shotgun as long as the barrel is pointed towards the ground. If you point it into a crowd like the guy in OP did, thats a crime. I don’t know the laws regarding whether having your finger on the trigger when the barrel is pointed at the ground is a crime or not. Intimidation with a firearm is a complex thing. Showing up with the barrel pointed at the ground is ok in some places, but pointing the gun directly at someone isn’t. I’ve heard in some domestic violence situations, the abuser will ‘show’ the gun to the victim. Not point it at them, just show the victim their guns they own. The goal is to intimidate and terrorize, but because they weren’t using the weapon or pointing it at their victim (yet), it didn’t count as a crime in those situation. ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/14 "2020-06-07T05:01:02Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Wasn’t he charged for brandishing? > > In states like mine, you can openly carry a rifle or shotgun as long as the barrel is pointed towards the ground. If you point it into a crowd like the guy in OP did, thats a crime. > > I don’t know the laws regarding whether having your finger on the trigger when the barrel is pointed at the ground is a crime or not. > > Intimidation with a firearm is a complex thing. Showing up with the barrel pointed at the ground is ok in some places, but pointing the gun directly at someone isn’t. > > I’ve heard in some domestic violence situations, the abuser will ‘show’ the gun to the victim. Not point it at them, just show the victim their guns they own. The goal is to intimidate and terrorize, but because they weren’t using the weapon or pointing it at their victim (yet), it didn’t count as a crime in those situation. What state do you live in, because in CA it doesn’t work like this. CA’s brandishing law is not based on whether the brandisher exhibits specific stances or poses with the weapon. CA specifically uses the phrases [draws or displays…in a threatening or angry manner](“ [California Code, PEN 417”](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=417%E2%80%9D)). So your example of getting away with “showing” a weapon in a domestic dispute would not work in CA. Other states, for example PA, do not have a specific law against brandishing weapons and such behavior would be charged under assault, terroristic threats, or similar statutes, again based on the intent demonstrated and not the specific position used. While there may be specific actions that are recognized in case law as always constituting brandishing, that wouldn’t mean only those actions are prohibited. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/15 "2020-06-07T07:55:01Z")
March 29 to April 5 2019, “large” capacity magazines were legal to buy, and subsequently legal to own. I don’t know what the practical availability of purchase for drums were then. I don’t think any military that uses larger than 30 round AR style magazines. Larger appearing magazines can also be pinned to 10 or whatever size while appearing larger. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/16 "2020-06-07T13:16:54Z")
Can someone help me find a visual of how the allowed magazines work? I punched tooled magazine into Google and got a bunch of leather art pictures. I’m not very familiar with firearms. But I did fire a rifle once. I think it had a button like what isn’t allowed in CA. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/17 "2020-06-07T14:06:16Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > Can someone help me find a visual of how the allowed magazines work? I punched > tooled magazine > into Google and got a bunch of leather art pictures. > > I’m not very familiar with firearms. But I did fire a rifle once. I think it had a button like what isn’t allowed in CA. it just means you have to use a tool of some sort to disengage the magazine catch. [here’s a pic of a CA compliant AR-15 with a “bullet button” magazine release.](https://www.thetrace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/armalite-spr-mod-1-california-compliant-bullet-button21.jpg) with a normal AR-15, that entire oval pad is the magazine release button, you press it with your finger and the mag drops out of the gun. In order to make it take a lot longer to change the magazine, CA requires that the magazine release need something with a fine tip to actuate it. ---
**Author:** ![Cleophus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a88e57/32.png) [@Cleophus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cleophus)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/18 "2020-06-07T14:08:06Z")
CA law used to require that the magazine couldn’t be removed without the use of a tool. “Tool” wasn’t specifically defined and it was allowable to replace the magazine release with a small button that could be pressed with the tip of a bullet, hence “bullet button”. It was also possible to use a small ring-like device worn on the finger as a tool that served to function almost exactly like a normal magazine release. This was changed and now a gun with one requires a very hard to obtain special license. However, it is more complicated than this. The “bullet button” was required to have a detachable magazine when the rifle was equipped with several other largely cosmetic features. If your rifle does not have them, termed a “featureless” rifle, you can have a normal detachable magazine. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/19 "2020-06-07T15:35:28Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > it just means you have to use a tool of some sort to disengage the magazine catch. [here’s a pic of a CA compliant AR-15 with a “bullet button” magazine release.](https://www.thetrace.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/armalite-spr-mod-1-california-compliant-bullet-button21.jpg) Not any more. For the reasons \*\*Cleophus \*\*explains the law was amended so the “bullet button” was incorporated into the exclusionary features, allowed only for “assault” weapons registered before 2018. Newer compliant devices are more commonly linkages that disable the release unless the receiver is opened. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2020, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040/20 "2020-06-07T15:58:33Z")
thanks. I haven’t kept up on that. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/military-style-firearms-in-california/855040.md?page=2)