# Militia-Style Armed Group Arrested in MASS after Standoff (No Injuries) - Newsbreak **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 3, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607 "2021-07-03T16:40:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/1 "2021-07-03T16:40:00Z")
For those who missed it, the CNN article - [https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/03/us/shelter-in-place-wakefield-reading-massachusetts/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/03/us/shelter-in-place-wakefield-reading-massachusetts/index.html) > The men were wearing what Massachusetts State Police Col. Christopher Mason described as tactical vests and military style uniforms, along with body cameras, and they were carrying a mixture of long rifles and pistols. The men indicated they were traveling from Rhode Island for “training,” according to Mason. > > The situation started around 1:30 a.m., when a state trooper saw two vehicles in the breakdown lane with their hazard lights on, Mason said. > > The men claimed to be “from a group that does not recognize our laws,” according to a statement from the [Wakefield Police Department](https://www.wakefieldpd.org/home/urgent-alerts/incident-route-128). Snipped the above pieces for those who don’t want to read the article. This is early news yes, and the article indicates that the individuals arrested do not consider themselves anti government. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/2 "2021-07-03T16:50:10Z")
It appears to be some sort of Moorish SovCit group called “Rise of the Moors-Moorish American Arms.” > **[Wakefield Standoff Suspects Claim To Be Part Of Group Called 'Rise Of The Moors'](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/rise-of-moors-moorish-american-arms-wakefield-standoff-i95/)** > > State Police said the group was headed from Rhode Island to Maine for training.  I’m thinking these people may be associated with the groups that are running around claiming to be the rightful owners of people’s homes. > **[Woman shares bizarre standoff with an extremist group trying to steal her...](https://www.dailydot.com/irl/moorish-sovereign-citizens-allegedly-steal-womans-home-tiktok/)** > > The past few days have been wild for @regblackgrl, whose bizarre standoff with Moorish Sovereign Citizens has gripped audiences on TikTok. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/3 "2021-07-03T16:54:15Z")
I bow to your superior GoogleFu, I was trying to get more info out of the police dept link in the CNN report (which has even less info). Thanks for the help and new info **Ann\_Hedonia**. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/4 "2021-07-04T00:12:02Z")
It’s a good thing I’m not one of the officers involved. Every time one of the suspects invoked his rights as a member of the Rise Of The Moors, I’d interrupt with “The Moops?” ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/5 "2021-07-04T00:32:09Z")
It’s an interesting case, to be sure, since groups like this tend to be, let’s just say, of a different ethnic background than the men involved in this incident. If I had to guess, I would say that these Moorish militiamen were on their way to conduct some kind of “training exercise” in a remote area, training for something that’s never actually going to happen - like their white counterparts. These groups get a lot of media coverage and are often presented as being very scary, but I have a hard time being afraid of any of them since they rarely seem to actually _do_ anything, other than get pulled over and arrested by cops. As far as I can tell, the only major act of violence connected to a militia group in America was the Oklahoma City bombing, and even this connection seems tenuous because McVeigh didn’t seem to actually be acting on behalf of any militia. Was he even a member of one? I know he supported their ideology, but he seems to have acted alone, other than his accomplice Terry Nichols who according to his Wikipedia page was also not actually a member of any militia. The bullshit with the Bundy group has been ongoing for a while but to my knowledge the only death resulting from any of their incidents was one of their own members being shot by the police. All this is to say, I wouldn’t want to spend time around any of these people but as far as I can tell they’re not much more than grown men playing dress-up in the woods. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/6 "2021-07-04T03:20:24Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > All this is to say, I wouldn’t want to spend time around any of these people but as far as I can tell they’re not much more than grown men playing dress-up in the woods. Yeah, these “militia” irregulars be they Proud Boys, Rise of the Moors, or what have you, seem to share that. I mean, I see this report, and I think… ookaayy… let me see if I have this right, dudes: your militant group is heading out to do training… by travelling overtly uniformed and visibly armed in a convoy on a main highway through a gun-controlled state… Y’all haven’t ever been anywhere near a real revolution or even met anyone who was, have ya? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/7 "2021-07-04T04:06:33Z")
Best article I’ve found so far with background on what happened, statements from the individuals at the scene, short summary of the ‘Rise of the Moors’ and so forth. Will likely need to open in ‘incognito’ to avoid the usual browser demands. > **[Leader of Rise of The Moors militia bragged about gun arsenal](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9753683/Leader-Rise-Moors-militia-arrested-Massachusetts-standoff.html)** > > Jahmal Latimer, who also goes by the title Talib Abdulla Bey and identifies as the 'grand chief of Rhode Island ', shared footage of him him racking a gun and bragging that he had three. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/8 "2021-07-04T04:32:54Z")
[/quote]Continuing the discussion from [Militia-Style Armed Group Arrested in MASS after Standoff (No Injuries) - Newsbreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/5): [/endquote] Au contraire. As agent provocateurs these people are really dangerous. The Bundy ranch stand off could have ended very bloodily but the US government withdrew. The Proud Boys convoyed through Portland using bear spray, and that could have turned really ugly. The Wisconsin legislature takeover with long guns, and attempts to kidnap the governor. These are armed gangs, and they should be crushed immediately or else they think they have a free pass. Zero tolerance no matter what the skin color of these loons are. If they want to go incognito, weapons in the trunk, stop and follow law enforcement directives. Then, it’s a free country, and that is acceptable behavior. This Sovern shit is way out there and law enforcement should crack down hard. As a former president told the Proud Boys: “Stand back and stand by.” And they came roaring back to incite if not lead the capital insurrection. I hope this isn’t behind the paywall. It is harrowing to watch the 45 minute blow by blow of how the capital was breached and by whom: [https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/us/jan-6-capitol-attack-takeaways.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/us/jan-6-capitol-attack-takeaways.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/9 "2021-07-04T05:50:35Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > As far as I can tell, the only major act of violence connected to a militia group in America was the Oklahoma City bombing,… How soon they forget, and January 6th was only a half year ago. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/10 "2021-07-04T11:36:56Z")
A lot of these groups are associated with cultlike fundamentalist churches and may be tasked with policing the congregation. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/11 "2021-07-04T15:07:26Z")
> [@China\_Guy](#): > > I hope this isn’t behind the paywall. It is harrowing to watch the 45 minute blow by blow of how the capital was breached and by whom: [Inside the Jan. 6 Capitol Riot: An Exclusive Video Investigation - The New York Times](https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/30/us/jan-6-capitol-attack-takeaways.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage) Harrowing watching the recap, I watched it LIVE on CSPAN. I was originally just watching to catch the validation of the voting, and was actually playing Elder Scrolls Online, and something odd caught the corner of my eye, and I commented to my husband “Damn, that looks like something that happened back in the 80s in Honduras…” and then realized they weren’t showing some sort of archival footage, that was the freaking capitol of the US they were showing. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/12 "2021-07-04T18:29:57Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > I mean, I see this report, and I think… ookaayy… let me see if I have this right, dudes: your militant group is heading out to do training… by travelling overtly uniformed and visibly armed in a convoy on a main highway through a gun-controlled state… Y’all haven’t ever been anywhere near a real revolution or even met anyone who was, have ya? And then the trouble starts because they ran out of gas and had to stop at the side of the road. (I forget which article that was in.) ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/13 "2021-07-04T20:37:16Z")
If they started in Rhode Island, they literally could not have driven more than 120 miles to get where they were, unless they were driving in circles. So yeah, if your’re insistent on breaking the law, fill your tank before you go. I know they’re at least sov cit adjacent and are probably going to go with a “lack-of-joinder/admiralty court” defense, but I’m wondering if they’re also going to try [the federal firearms transportation law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A), which allows for transportation of firearms through states as long as they’re legal to possess at both the origin and destination. The problem for them of course is that the law clearly states the firearms have to be inaccessible from the passenger compartment or in a locked container. So actually carrying them around completely invalidates that law’s protection. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/14 "2021-07-04T20:52:50Z")
So who are these people? A Muslim Moroccan equivalent to the Black Hebrew Israelites? Their creed seems kind of similar - they believe they are the true native people of America? That seems to be their claim. They certainly aren’t white supremacists. ---
**Author:** ![Capn\_Carl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/838e76/32.png) [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/15 "2021-07-04T21:03:52Z")
Don’t forget the militia that plotted the kidnapping of Michigan’s governor. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/16 "2021-07-04T21:45:23Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > I’m wondering if they’re also going to try [the federal firearms transportation law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A), which allows for transportation of firearms through states as long as they’re legal to possess at both the origin and destination. The problem for them of course is that the law clearly states the firearms have to be inaccessible from the passenger compartment or in a locked container. So actually carrying them around completely invalidates that law’s protection. Wonder if they’ll come up with some sort of “we’re travelling, not transporting” argument. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So who are these people? A Muslim Moroccan equivalent to the Black Hebrew Israelites? As far as I can tell this group is one of a set of Sovereign Citizen-inspired factions that call themselves “Moorish” having been founded by people who belonged to or were influenced by the [Moorish Science Temple](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moorish_Science_Temple_of_America), an old US Africanist-religious-identity society similar to the BHI. This flavor of SovCt are especially known for obnoxious practices of filing liens on other peoples’ properties and taking them over in the legit owners’ absence. Apparently at least one such group, the [Washitaw Nation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washitaw_Nation), has tried to claim to be a sovereign Native Nation for decades now. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/17 "2021-07-04T22:15:16Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Apparently at least one such group, the [Washitaw Nation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washitaw_Nation), has tried to claim to be a sovereign Native Nation for decades now. What I’m getting out of the Sov Cit crap is that women can be as nutso-coocoo as men. I cringed every time a leader was introduced and it was just another Ernest T Bass from the hills, but I welcomed the late Empress Verdiacee Tiari Washitaw Turner Goston El-Bey. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/18 "2021-07-04T23:03:48Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > …I’m wondering if they’re also going to try [the federal firearms transportation law](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/926A), which allows for transportation of firearms through states as long as they’re legal to possess at both the origin and destination. The problem for them of course is that the law clearly states the firearms have to be inaccessible from the passenger compartment or in a locked container. The article I quoted earlier quoted one of the members at the scene as saying > ‘The police saw us on the side of the road with our guns secured, we were afraid, so we got out with our arms, and I have a body camera that has been recording the whole time,’ the Rise of the Moors member insisted. So yup, looks like that’s their claim so far, of course we’ll have to see how their definition of secured matches up with that of the law. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > Wonder if they’ll come up with some sort of “we’re travelling, not transporting” argument. From the same article. > Meanwhile, another clip titled ‘Moroccan Peace’ featured the man saying: 'According to the United States federal law, we have the right to peaceful journey, so with that being said we should not have been detained here. The language ‘right to peaceful journey’ sounds exactly like the various stilted SovCit travelling arguments, so yeah, that is my read as well. ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/19 "2021-07-05T00:45:49Z")
Updated CNN article including charges - [https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/04/us/highway-stand-off-wakefield-massachusetts-charged/](https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/04/us/highway-stand-off-wakefield-massachusetts-charged/) > All suspects are facing charges of eight counts of unlawful possession of a firearm, unlawful possession of ammunition, use of body armor in commission of a crime, possession of a high capacity magazine, improper storage of firearms in a vehicle, and conspiracy to commit a crime, the statement said. I wonder about the last one, the others seem to be inline with the current known circumstances - unless it’s conspiracy to commit the previous crimes (possession of inappropriate weapons transported across state lines). All but one (17) are adults for what it’s worth. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2021, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607/20 "2021-07-05T03:41:47Z")
Militia’s normally use private property they own or lease. Someplace they can legally target practice and drill. That wouldn’t be in Massachusetts with their gun laws. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/militia-style-armed-group-arrested-in-mass-after-standoff-no-injuries-newsbreak/945607.md?page=2)