# “Milk and Honey are the Only Foods that weren’t Originally Alive...” **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 30, 2018, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473 "2018-03-30T13:49:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/21 "2018-03-30T15:06:02Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > I was thinking of keratin - hair and fingernails as well. I think it counts as never being alive. No actual cells in there. But since we don’t seem to have the capability of digesting it, it doesn’t seem to pass the “food” requirement. Maybe there is a viable way of processing keratin to make it into a useful food. Maybe I could teach my cats to process their hairballs. Keratin starts out as specialized skin cells. The process of cornification is how the cells “die” and lose their metabolic and reproductive machinery, leaving behind a distorted cell structure full of rigid and flexible proteins. And as a counterpoint, milk is initially secreted with white blood cells from the mother. Is there a meaningful distinction between “living tissue because lots of cells” and “not living tissue because few cells?” Even if you say there is, it’s still arbitrary. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/22 "2018-03-30T15:06:17Z")
> [@Francis\_Vaughan](#): > > Sugar is a funny one. Given most sugar we buy is derived from the mechanical processing of plants - beet or cane mostly, it involves the destruction of a living thing to produce. Honey is made from nectar that is deliberately formed by the plant to attract insects, and is harvested not only with no harm to the plant, but with a side benefit of pollination. That said - beekeepers will feed hives with syrup made from commercial sugar in hard times. Yeah, that’s where it’s an odd line to draw. You may be destroying a plant to get it, but the juices still are no more alive than the nectar is. Though, I suppose by that definition, it pretty much opens up all fruit juices, as long as they aren’t pulpy. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/23 "2018-03-30T15:19:25Z")
My other favorite Showerthought on the front page is: \* **Spiders can shit out a new house that stocks itself with food whenever they feel like it.** \* 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/24 "2018-03-30T15:20:06Z")
Yeah, most fruit is also harvested with no harm to the plant, and with a side benefit of spreading the plant’s progeny. Granted, the process is a bit different the way we do it (we mostly deliberately cultivate the plants whose fruit we eat, instead of just pooping out the seeds), but the net effect is the same. Ultimately, though, the question is considerably complicated by the fact that substances aren’t alive; organisms are. You can look at a plant or an animal, and break it down into a (rather long) list of all of the substances it’s made of: The water isn’t alive, and the polypeptides aren’t alive, and the polysacharides aren’t alive, and the nucleic acids aren’t alive, and the glycerides aren’t alive, and so on… but when you put them all together in the right way, the combination of all of them is alive. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/25 "2018-03-30T15:25:37Z")
> [@Fretful\_Porpentine](#): > > I’m pretty sure salt wasn’t originally alive. This. Not only is salt not a formerly “alive” substance, it’s the only inorganic substance we have regularly used as food throughout history. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/26 "2018-03-30T15:37:20Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > This. Not only is salt not a formerly “alive” substance, it’s the only inorganic substance we have regularly used as food throughout history. Used as an ingredient in food-yes. Used as a food…? ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/27 "2018-03-30T15:40:16Z")
> [@dtilque](#): > > Blood has living cells in it, milk does not. Actually, milk does has living cells. A quick cite from Google, [Cells of human breast milk](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5508878/). I assume other species’ milk has living cells as well. Edited to add bottom line from cite: “Considering its composition, function, rich biological ingredients and cellular contents, breast milk can be considered a living tissue.” ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/28 "2018-03-30T15:43:52Z")
Use “originally”, “living” and “food” in vague enough terms and almost anything can be included or excluded. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/29 "2018-03-30T15:46:42Z")
Oh, and to add to the list, “vinegar” (or at least, a 10% solution of acetic acid, which might or might not be legal to call vinegar) can be made from petrochemicals. The petrochemicals themselves are usually derived from the remains of organisms, but there are such things as abiotic petrochemicals. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/30 "2018-03-30T15:49:14Z")
If we’re including salt, we probably need to include water as well. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/31 "2018-03-30T15:51:40Z")
> [@DSYoungEsq](#): > > This. Not only is salt not a formerly “alive” substance, it’s the only inorganic substance we have regularly used as food throughout history. If salt counts, doesn’t ice? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/32 "2018-03-30T16:02:40Z")
If we’re talking about salt then we should also mention baking soda, baking powder, and alum. What may be unique about honey and milk is that they are created by the bees and mammals specifically to be used as food. I can’t think of anything else we eat where that’s true. ---
**Author:** ![am77494](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d2c977/32.png) [@am77494](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/am77494)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/33 "2018-03-30T16:05:22Z")
Does Cinnamon, maple syrup, palm syrup, asafetida ([Asafoetida - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asafoetida)), etc count ? What about common minerals like Calcium carbonate , iron sulfate, magnesium oxide, etc? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/34 "2018-03-30T16:25:50Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What may be unique about honey and milk is that they are created by the bees and mammals specifically to be used as food. I can’t think of anything else we eat where that’s true. Fruit is created by plants to be used as food for animals. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/35 "2018-03-30T16:35:32Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If salt counts, doesn’t ice? Alcohol, too. And since we’ve already cleared fruit, we’re well on our way to a no-kill margarita. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/36 "2018-03-30T16:38:54Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Fruit is created by plants to be used as food for animals. I think that’s different. Fruit is created to spread seeds. Animals benefiting from that is secondary. Honey and milk are created specifically to feed themselves or their young. They serve no other purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/37 "2018-03-30T17:08:00Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > I think that’s different. Fruit is created to spread seeds. Animals benefiting from that is secondary. If animals didn’t benefit from it, they wouldn’t spread the seeds. (It’s the same with nectar, which is a bribe to the bees to pollinate the flowers.) Egg yolk is created to serve as food for the developing embryo. In that sense it’s no different than milk. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/38 "2018-03-30T17:14:34Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > What may be unique about honey and milk is that they are created by the bees and mammals specifically to be used as food. This is the version of this I’ve heard (on _Good Eats_, maybe?). Milk and honey are the only edible things on Earth whose sole purpose is to be eaten. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/39 "2018-03-30T17:39:56Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Milk and honey are the only edible things on Earth whose sole purpose is to be eaten. Milk is created by female mammals. (Some birds like pigeons and flamingos feed their young on “milk” produced in the crop.) But honey isn’t created by bees, it’s processed from nectar made by plants to attract pollinators. So if you count honey, you would also have to count fruit jam. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2018, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473/40 "2018-03-30T18:00:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Ultimately, though, the question is considerably complicated by the fact that substances aren’t alive; organisms are. You can look at a plant or an animal, and break it down into a (rather long) list of all of the substances it’s made of: The water isn’t alive, and the polypeptides aren’t alive, and the polysacharides aren’t alive, and the nucleic acids aren’t alive, and the glycerides aren’t alive, and so on… but when you put them all together in the right way, the combination of all of them is alive. There’s the curious case of the [Florida stone crab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_stone_crab). The claws can be removed and the crab returned to the water where it can survive and even regrow the claws. Rather like fruit trees, part of it can be harvested and eaten while the organism survives. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/milk-and-honey-are-the-only-foods-that-weren-t-originally-alive/811473.md?page=3)