# Millennials: How are you doing? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 7, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/millennials-how-are-you-doing/721924 "2015-06-07T22:20:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/millennials-how-are-you-doing/721924/41 "2015-06-08T18:57:44Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](#): > > Household income vs individual income can be confusing and is a difficult problem to get around, but between my wife and I, both our median and mean incomes are $60,000. It tells a pretty accurate story of how well we’re doing. > > More importantly, the median and mean starting salary for new college graduates are both well over $40,000. To me that undercuts the argument that ‘most’ Millennials who can get jobs at all are working part time at Starbucks. I don’t know who has said “most” Millennials are working at Starbucks. If a sizable portion are working at low-paid retail jobs, and this proportion is significantly greater than what Gen Xers or Boomers experienced when they were in the same age range, then it is a finding worth talking about. At the very least, it could be indicative of societal shifts that we need to be prepared for (like, parents need to be prepared for more boomeranging and plan their own retirements accordingly). > [@](#): > > If we know the median annual earnings for bachelor’s degree holders 25-34 is $48,500, it actually tells us a lot about how most people are doing. We know half of them are earning less than that, and we know half of them are earning more. We could know a lot _more_ about the distribution, but I wouldn’t say that number isn’t telling us a decent idea of how well people are doing. It actually doesn’t tell us that much, though. $48K in bumfuck Egypt is great, but it is lousy in San Francisco or NYC. It is especially lousy if you are juggling a monthly student loan payment. It also doesn’t tell us if that salary is a great ROI. If college students are shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars just to land a job that makes $40K, it doesn’t matter that if they have no debt. That’s not a great investment. > [@](#): > > Anecdotally, when I tell people numbers like $48,500, or how few people actually borrow over $100,000 or how low the actual average student debt amount is, they’re usually very surprised. I know I was extremely surprised. Do you mind sharing these numbers with us, including their sources? I’m not doubting their veracity, but I just like hard data. > [@](#): > > You could assume they don’t understand what the word median means, but I usually assume they do know but had different expectations based on whatever informed their expectations - media or anecdotal experiences with young people. I work with people with Ph.Ds that don’t know the difference. And a lot of people confuse their anecdotal success or misery with data. That’s why I try not to get information from just one source. Including message board posts. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/millennials-how-are-you-doing/721924/42 "2015-06-08T19:00:11Z")
Using the “don’t borrow more than you will earn in year one” rule of thumb, it looks like college debt is [still worth it](http://blogs.wsj.com/numbers/congatulations-to-class-of-2014-the-most-indebted-ever-1368/). ---
**Author:** ![stillownedbysetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/41988e/32.png) [@stillownedbysetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stillownedbysetters)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/millennials-how-are-you-doing/721924/43 "2015-06-08T19:03:49Z")
Funny, I just had this talk with my son and DIL on Sunday. He’s 33, she’s 30 and they are brand new parents. My son is extremely financially acute and owns his home free and clear (he bought it at an auction in a terrible state and did 99% of the renovation work himself), has discharged his student loan debt, and has a stable, if not super lucrative job with a future. His wife is able to be a stay-at-home mom and has a small crafts business on etsy. Unfortunately, their baby was born months premature, and even though insured, they still owe over $30,000 to date in medical bills. This has changed their life plan enough that they will probably not have a second child now. I’m sad for them to have been thrown for such a financial loop, but at least they had their financial house in order enough for them to be able to weather it. Had they had extensive student loans, a big mortgage, and a lot of retail debt as some do, theyd’ have probably had to go the bankruptcy route. When I married we had nothing between us but student loan debt and the first fewyears were very lean, but we made it through and I think they will, too. I asked them if they would have done anything differently, and the only things mentioned were by my son who said he’d have majored in something STEM-related instead of communications and by them both that they’d have gotten married sooner in a looser economy. Other than that, they don’t feel they are especially hard done by. ---
**Author:** ![MissTake](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/misstake/32/3189_2.png) [@MissTake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MissTake)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/millennials-how-are-you-doing/721924/44 "2015-06-08T19:07:45Z")
TheKid and her circle of friends are young millenials (all born 1992-1994). TheKid went to pastry school, is working at a local restaurant, still lives here. She knew a traditional four year college was not for her. Pay sucks, but she’s on top of her bills, contributes to the household bills, and has a healthy savings account. She doesn’t drive, so she saves a lot not having that financial responsibility. She is debating about applying at a new grocery store opening nearby, where the pay is significantly more and she’d be back baking. If she works there, she can feasibly plan on moving out in about 6 months. I don’t mind having her home, due to my medical issues. Her circle of friends are widely varied: One is president of his frat at an elite school, his goals have been lined up since he was in elementary school. He is living his college life and doing very well. Another who was a shooting star, college paid for, brilliant grades - booted out and is now living with her middle aged boyfriend, playing mommy to his son. A few others are entering their senior year in college - one just decided what she wants to be, one found love in the bottom of a bottle and is struggling, one is traipsing all over Europe living a very nice life. Those who didn’t go to college are just as varied - some are parents, working FT doing what they need to do, one fell into a career that has taken off and he’s doing very well, one lives with his mom, not doing much of anything, and a few took a few years off and are now starting college / tech school. The only constant I can see is that those who were focused on goals are achieving them, whether it is college or raising families. Those who were not very focused still are all over the map. ---
**Author:** ![piepiepie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e47774/32.png) [@piepiepie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/piepiepie)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/millennials-how-are-you-doing/721924/45 "2015-06-08T19:16:38Z")
I could be better. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/millennials-how-are-you-doing/721924/46 "2015-06-08T19:21:23Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I don’t know who has said “most” Millennials are working at Starbucks. If a sizable portion are working at low-paid retail jobs, and this proportion is significantly greater than what Gen Xers or Boomers experienced when they were in the same age range, then it is a finding worth talking about. At the very least, it could be indicative of societal shifts that we need to be prepared for (like, parents need to be prepared for more boomeranging and plan their own retirements accordingly). I’ve never seen evidence that that is the case though. I’d be really open to hearing about it, it just hasn’t been what I’ve found from casual reading about the topic. > [@monstro](#): > > It actually doesn’t tell us that much, though. $48K in bumfuck Egypt is great, but it is lousy in San Francisco or NYC. It is especially lousy if you are juggling a monthly student loan payment. It’s U.S. data so no Egyptians to worry about. If all we have to worry about is whether it holds true in the two greatest outliers in terms of cost of living, saying “it doesn’t tell us much” is pretty far from accurate. > [@monstro](#): > > It also doesn’t tell us if that salary is a great ROI. If college students are shelling out hundreds of thousands of dollars just to land a job that makes $40K, it doesn’t matter that if they have no debt. That’s not a great investment. They’re not doing anything of the sort though. For the class of 2013, average debt was under $30,000. [http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/11/13/average-student-loan-debt-hits-30-000](http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/11/13/average-student-loan-debt-hits-30-000) > [@monstro](#): > > Do you mind sharing these numbers with us, including their sources? I’m not doubting their veracity, but I just like hard data. My numbers are from the National Center for Education Statistics. ([Fast Facts: Income of young adults (77)](https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=77)) The other numbers you usually see are from the National Association of Colleges and Employers, which is in line with the numbers I cited but I don’t put a little less faith in them since they seem incentivized to find a way to push a rosy picture. > [@monstro](#): > > I work with people with Ph.Ds that don’t know the difference. And a lot of people confuse their anecdotal success or misery with data. That’s why I try not to get information from just one source. Including message board posts. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/millennials-how-are-you-doing/721924.md?page=2)